Will Vista increase demand for skinning?
Your thoughts?
Wednesday, July 12, 2006 by Frogboy | Discussion: OS Customization
I've shown friends my beta of Windows Vista and they love the clean look, the glass UI, the dark Start bar.
But I wonder how they'll feel about it say a month after they've been using it. As I've begun to mess around with the betas more and more, the sexiness starts to wear off and my desire to personalize my experience for my own preferences returns.
What looks like glass at first starts to just be a bitmap that's at 20% opacity with a blur effect on it. Sure, I can change the opacity or the color but essentially, from a customization point of view, Windows Vista is actually a step back from Windows XP in some ways in my opinion. Even XP users could hack uxtheme.dll and apply hacked msstyles to their system. This time, the story isn't quite the same. Now, at best, you'll have someone hacking bitmaps to replace the border and button PNGs/BMPs with another and even then, what do you do about things like Office 2007 which are literally hard-coded.
My prediction is that skinning, which has been steadily growing in popularity to the point of being mainstream (which has not been completely good news for skin sites -- as skinning becomes mainstream, cottage sites become less needed), will take a new turn with the demand increasing even further.
I think WindowBlinds and other Stardock programs will likely see real competitors because the demand for customization will grow much higher.
And I haven't even touched on Microsoft's gadgets which are definitely going to need third party help to be viable IMO. As it stands now, the Microsoft gadget platform is in desperate need of third party attention to expand what developers can do easily so that worthwhile content can be made. DesktopX 4 will likely step up to the plate when it's released but I think you'll see a whole cottage industry for that.
But what do you think? Do you think Vista will be good for skinning or do you think the cool, clean look of Vista will be enough?
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Adamness
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:14 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:14 PM
It could be said that skinning really grew up in XP because Luna was just so ugly and obnoxious. But I think it's just because people like skinning. After a few months, any GUI will get boring. As long as there is the capacity to skin, there will be skinners. 
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #3 Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:45 AM
Reply #3 Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:45 AM
Changing the look is the first thing I'd do. It's nice, as a skinner, to have the GUI looking the way I want it to and not the way someone else wants it to.
After months of seeing Vista clones I'm sick of the look already.
After months of seeing Vista clones I'm sick of the look already.
thomassen
Reply #4 Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:00 AM
Reply #4 Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:00 AM
I really liked the Aero Glass theme. But one of the first things I was thinking of was, if we can customize the Aero interface,... then it'd bring skins to the next level.
I could quite happily use the default theme for a while, but I really REALLY hope Statdock got some nifty tricks up their sleve to allow us to mess about with new themes. Because eventually I wan't to look at something else than Glass. To the point that I might even go back to the Aero Basic UI so I can apply new skins and sacriface some of the nifty Aero feature. (Something I hope I won't have to)
I don't think that the new Aero theme will make more people aware of skinning. Why would they if they don't allready know about skinning. However, if Microsoft where to release a couple of new style through some special events or therou Vista Ultimate Extras, then people might get their eye up and activly search for new skins. And of cource then they'd see the existing skinning community. Get my drift?
I could quite happily use the default theme for a while, but I really REALLY hope Statdock got some nifty tricks up their sleve to allow us to mess about with new themes. Because eventually I wan't to look at something else than Glass. To the point that I might even go back to the Aero Basic UI so I can apply new skins and sacriface some of the nifty Aero feature. (Something I hope I won't have to)
I don't think that the new Aero theme will make more people aware of skinning. Why would they if they don't allready know about skinning. However, if Microsoft where to release a couple of new style through some special events or therou Vista Ultimate Extras, then people might get their eye up and activly search for new skins. And of cource then they'd see the existing skinning community. Get my drift?
Roquen
Reply #5 Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:05 AM
Reply #5 Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:05 AM
Myself, I'm really looking forward to the new world that Vista could potentially open up. I'm basing some of this assumption on whispers that I've heared about the 3D graphics desktop that we now have. I gather that Vista only looks like the Windows we all know because anything else would freak us all out at this time. I remember seeing somthing that truly simulated a 3D desktop enviroment whereby you can stack icons and flip them in to various usable states; however, this simulation seemed very complex and extreamly ugly! If Stardock could bring me somthing like that and have it skinnable... well, I would pay serious money for that!!!
The downside would be be what I encounter now, but to a higher degree; whenever I use another PC (friends, work etc...) the usability goes way down. I've even encountered situations where friends using my PC get confused just because I'm using a different skin! This is only going to get worse. I personally don't care as it's my PC but I'm starting to understand a little better as to why MS wanting a uniform look. This isn't nessacerily just the fault of skinning though as, for instance, my wife already has trouble with Vista's interface.
As for Gadgets, well, it seemed like a good idea, but I have gotten boared with them very quickly. It seems to me that nobody can think of any new and exciting uses for them and until sombody does, I think they are a case of the Emporers new clothes... they are only cool because everyone says they are! I have all the stuff I need running on Obectdock and I've yet to see anything really substantial in the docklet arena for some time. How many RSS feeds, media players, clocks, weather gadgets etc, do we need?
The downside would be be what I encounter now, but to a higher degree; whenever I use another PC (friends, work etc...) the usability goes way down. I've even encountered situations where friends using my PC get confused just because I'm using a different skin! This is only going to get worse. I personally don't care as it's my PC but I'm starting to understand a little better as to why MS wanting a uniform look. This isn't nessacerily just the fault of skinning though as, for instance, my wife already has trouble with Vista's interface.
As for Gadgets, well, it seemed like a good idea, but I have gotten boared with them very quickly. It seems to me that nobody can think of any new and exciting uses for them and until sombody does, I think they are a case of the Emporers new clothes... they are only cool because everyone says they are! I have all the stuff I need running on Obectdock and I've yet to see anything really substantial in the docklet arena for some time. How many RSS feeds, media players, clocks, weather gadgets etc, do we need?
Jafo
Reply #6 Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:36 AM
Reply #6 Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:36 AM
Being 'different' still requires you to make use of skinning, etc.
The novelty that is a new OS GUI will soon wear off....once every man and his dog is sporting the same 'new' look.
The only thing that might diminish skinning's demand/popularity would be accessibility to same.....just as it's always been...
starkers
Reply #7 Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:53 AM
Reply #7 Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:53 AM
Although I like the new look of Vista to some extent, I'd say that'll be short lived and history will repeat, given how long (short) the default 98 & XP looks lasted...what I did a within a week of installing the Vista beta...
Seeing as how WindowBlinds and Other Stardock apps don't run on Vista as yet, I installed WinStep Extreme to change the taskbar and start menu, to add some convenience and functionality, etc. Okay, it doesn't skin Windows, the whole GUI, but it's a start...roll on VistaBlinds. Also, I'm not too fussed about the sidebar addition and it was first to go....my gadget/widget needs are better served, organised by Winstep's WorkShelf ....hopefully all DesktopX features will function fully in Vista real soon.
Almost forgot...first thing to go was the default wallpaper! Within a few seconds of booting into Vista for the first time, I disliked the wallpaper and went in search of another to replace it...none in the wallpaper folder were suitable, but the desert wall in the 'sample pictures' folder caught my eye and I've been using it for a few days, but it cannot last much longer. In fact, think I'll import my walls folder from XP when I hang up from here.
Hopefully this will help towards answering your question...those who've always customised their desktops will continue to do so in Vista...and those who were always happy enough to use the default luna in XP probably won't....though the greater customising abilities in Vista may lead some towards seeking out greater possibilities, perhaps to Stardock....we can only hope, I guess.
Seeing as how WindowBlinds and Other Stardock apps don't run on Vista as yet, I installed WinStep Extreme to change the taskbar and start menu, to add some convenience and functionality, etc. Okay, it doesn't skin Windows, the whole GUI, but it's a start...roll on VistaBlinds. Also, I'm not too fussed about the sidebar addition and it was first to go....my gadget/widget needs are better served, organised by Winstep's WorkShelf ....hopefully all DesktopX features will function fully in Vista real soon.
Almost forgot...first thing to go was the default wallpaper! Within a few seconds of booting into Vista for the first time, I disliked the wallpaper and went in search of another to replace it...none in the wallpaper folder were suitable, but the desert wall in the 'sample pictures' folder caught my eye and I've been using it for a few days, but it cannot last much longer. In fact, think I'll import my walls folder from XP when I hang up from here.
Hopefully this will help towards answering your question...those who've always customised their desktops will continue to do so in Vista...and those who were always happy enough to use the default luna in XP probably won't....though the greater customising abilities in Vista may lead some towards seeking out greater possibilities, perhaps to Stardock....we can only hope, I guess.
DJBandit
Reply #8 Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:37 AM
Reply #8 Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:37 AM
I don't mind sticking to the original look of things but sometimes I just feel like change. Programs like Windowblinds, cursorXP and Iconpackager are great when you want to feel festive and give a holiday touch to your PC. For me skinning is something I wouldn't want gone, if I could change the color of my car once in a while I would do it.
BlueDev
Reply #9 Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:21 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:21 AM
I think the default Vista Glass theme will be a nice theme to have and fall back on at times (as opposed to Luna blue, which I have never used due to its ugliness). But personally, skinning Vista will be just as much of a priority for me as skinning XP. I look forward to the new options it opens up.
Jachyra
Reply #10 Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:40 AM
I agree. I don't even download Vista clone skins anymore, I got so tired of it. So I guess since many WB users are used to change the look of their desktop pretty often, I can't see why the same trend should fade with Vista.
Reply #10 Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:40 AM
| After months of seeing Vista clones I'm sick of the look already. |
I agree. I don't even download Vista clone skins anymore, I got so tired of it. So I guess since many WB users are used to change the look of their desktop pretty often, I can't see why the same trend should fade with Vista.
Corky_O
Reply #11 Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:09 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:09 PM
Being in the minority (I actually like the blue used in the 'Luna' theme, but would have liked to do away with the 'beige?' inner frame/menu bar color), I suspect that people may want some solid color options.
From a purist point of view, I think the viability of a solid market for skinning will depend on whether the third party programs can modify the shell or icons completely without any minor problems and no performance loss.
If the programs can modify the shell and icons flawlessly, I could see a huge potential for the skinning/customizing community. I also think this will depend on whether or not the programs can do this flawless work on low end machines (not just on high end machines with bleeding edge technology). The user who is forced to run the "standard" shell under Vista may well be very interested in modifying the theme sooner than later.
I suspect that anything short of complete skinning of the shell and icons will result in modest gains for the skinning community, but not in full support from the majority of users, who will probably decide that the OS is sufficient for their needs.
I await the results of development by Stardock with great enthusiasm, and will hope that the 'flawless' theory can come to fruition.
From a purist point of view, I think the viability of a solid market for skinning will depend on whether the third party programs can modify the shell or icons completely without any minor problems and no performance loss.
If the programs can modify the shell and icons flawlessly, I could see a huge potential for the skinning/customizing community. I also think this will depend on whether or not the programs can do this flawless work on low end machines (not just on high end machines with bleeding edge technology). The user who is forced to run the "standard" shell under Vista may well be very interested in modifying the theme sooner than later.
I suspect that anything short of complete skinning of the shell and icons will result in modest gains for the skinning community, but not in full support from the majority of users, who will probably decide that the OS is sufficient for their needs.
I await the results of development by Stardock with great enthusiasm, and will hope that the 'flawless' theory can come to fruition.
Corky_O
Reply #12 Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:21 PM
Reply #12 Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:21 PM
On the gadgets, I agree with Brad on the current content.
This may well determine the future of gadgetry on the desktop.
Will developers create some very useful gadgets with high-quality looks and functionality? I hope so!
I suspect that "Konfabulator" is working away on their end, and will have some offerings, as will (obviously) DesktopX.
The other option (IMHO) is that the browser may start to play a large part in this game, offering plug-ins that serve the same function as the current 'widgets/gadgets' and can be viewed or hidden both easily and conveniently. This would make some sense to me due to the fact that many of these 'widget/gadgets need Internet access anyway - so why not just incorporate them into the browser?
Perhaps a dedicated tab with all the information gadgets capable of customizable layouts on the tab page?
This could be fun.
This may well determine the future of gadgetry on the desktop.
Will developers create some very useful gadgets with high-quality looks and functionality? I hope so!
I suspect that "Konfabulator" is working away on their end, and will have some offerings, as will (obviously) DesktopX.
The other option (IMHO) is that the browser may start to play a large part in this game, offering plug-ins that serve the same function as the current 'widgets/gadgets' and can be viewed or hidden both easily and conveniently. This would make some sense to me due to the fact that many of these 'widget/gadgets need Internet access anyway - so why not just incorporate them into the browser?
Perhaps a dedicated tab with all the information gadgets capable of customizable layouts on the tab page?
This could be fun.
Elsius Saint
Reply #13 Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:26 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:26 PM
The Vista look is what we've been craving for. Since the beta's been swimming around, one barely see a premium skin being posted. Even most of the top skinners seem in love with the look and functionality of vista that they retire their skills of skinning. It's almost as if when you go Vista, you don't go back 
Xiozan
Reply #15 Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:06 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:06 PM
Its Skinners and the skinning community that makes skinning big. As long as the OS allows for skinning there will always be a skinning community on that OS.
However, it will be interesting to see how much skinners can squeeze out the new OS in regards to their skin. Will skinners be able to surpass the benchmarks they have set with XP?
I for one can't wait to see what skins I will be able to use on Vista.
However, it will be interesting to see how much skinners can squeeze out the new OS in regards to their skin. Will skinners be able to surpass the benchmarks they have set with XP?
I for one can't wait to see what skins I will be able to use on Vista.
KillerNotebooks
Reply #16 Friday, July 14, 2006 9:58 AM
Reply #16 Friday, July 14, 2006 9:58 AM
I put Vista Beta 2 on my laptop and we were talking about it at Tom's Hardware Forums
Everyone was pretty pumped on how it looked, me especially. That was until someone came in an posted that there are 2 different flavors of Vista. A cut down version for $99 and the "real" version for $499! So your question, "Will Vista increase demand for skinning?" I think is a definate, Yes. I searched the net and found a comperable skin and posted a link at Tom's. Seems a whole heck of a lot cheaper than going with a whole new OS.
Microstiff crys so much about piracy, but they don't look at why it's getting pirated, instead they raise the price, and crank up the security... that will help. Even now the Windows Genuine Advantage tool checks your copy of Windows then phones home w/o your permission and sends your personal info to MS. I would rather stay with the "Devil I know" and skin XP Pro than go with Vista and probably get caught in some new MS license scam in the next couple of years when it is too late to turn back. MS will turn out to be their own worst enemy. I for one can't see spending $499 on an OS when I can have the same look from a talented skinner and buy a PS3 with what I save!
Everyone was pretty pumped on how it looked, me especially. That was until someone came in an posted that there are 2 different flavors of Vista. A cut down version for $99 and the "real" version for $499! So your question, "Will Vista increase demand for skinning?" I think is a definate, Yes. I searched the net and found a comperable skin and posted a link at Tom's. Seems a whole heck of a lot cheaper than going with a whole new OS.
Microstiff crys so much about piracy, but they don't look at why it's getting pirated, instead they raise the price, and crank up the security... that will help. Even now the Windows Genuine Advantage tool checks your copy of Windows then phones home w/o your permission and sends your personal info to MS. I would rather stay with the "Devil I know" and skin XP Pro than go with Vista and probably get caught in some new MS license scam in the next couple of years when it is too late to turn back. MS will turn out to be their own worst enemy. I for one can't see spending $499 on an OS when I can have the same look from a talented skinner and buy a PS3 with what I save!
ZubaZ
Reply #17 Friday, July 14, 2006 10:32 AM
Reply #17 Friday, July 14, 2006 10:32 AM
Skinners will always skin. General users will not. I know lots of people that see my fully tricked out desltops and Oooo and Ahhh, but don't want to change anything on thier PCs because PCs make them nervous enough as it is and they don't want to step away from out-of-the-box. {that sentence is way too long . . . I need an editor]
The less the sheeple skin, the cooler I appear, let's stick with that then.
The less the sheeple skin, the cooler I appear, let's stick with that then.
KillerNotebooks
Reply #18 Friday, July 14, 2006 11:34 AM
Reply #18 Friday, July 14, 2006 11:34 AM
I am new to this forum. How do I check out your stuff? Is there a link I can see what skins you have posted?
I will be honest with you. I used Window Blinds in the past. I don't know how long ago. I felt like my system performance went down. I am probably crazy, but that's what my feeling was. Now that we have dual core everything, we have power to burn. I don't think I will feel like a skin is bringing a 2.16 Ghz dual core to it's knees
I installed WB today and I am seriously looking at the Vista type skins. I would like to offer these on my notebooks I sell as an option. I am envisioning it like this.
Customer buys a notebook. Checks off the skin option of lets say Royle Vista or something, it adds on the cost of WB and I install it for them with the OS install.
My question to anyone who knows, are these skins just free? Do the skinners just do it because they're cool or what? If that is the case they all get an A+ in my COOL BOOK.
I will be honest with you. I used Window Blinds in the past. I don't know how long ago. I felt like my system performance went down. I am probably crazy, but that's what my feeling was. Now that we have dual core everything, we have power to burn. I don't think I will feel like a skin is bringing a 2.16 Ghz dual core to it's knees
I installed WB today and I am seriously looking at the Vista type skins. I would like to offer these on my notebooks I sell as an option. I am envisioning it like this.
Customer buys a notebook. Checks off the skin option of lets say Royle Vista or something, it adds on the cost of WB and I install it for them with the OS install.
My question to anyone who knows, are these skins just free? Do the skinners just do it because they're cool or what? If that is the case they all get an A+ in my COOL BOOK.
ZubaZ
Reply #19 Friday, July 14, 2006 11:48 AM
Click on the name of the poster (the one who posted) and then click on the link to show skins. {Please note, mine suck}
https://www.stardock.com/products/thememanageroem/
Contact corpsales@stardock.com for licensing options on other corporate solutions.
If you are charging to buy WB, and install the skin, plus labor it'd d be cool to kick a little something back to the artist.
Reply #19 Friday, July 14, 2006 11:48 AM
| I am new to this forum. How do I check out your stuff? Is there a link I can see what skins you have posted? |
Click on the name of the poster (the one who posted) and then click on the link to show skins. {Please note, mine suck
}| I would like to offer these on my notebooks I sell as an option. I am envisioning it like this. |
https://www.stardock.com/products/thememanageroem/
Contact corpsales@stardock.com for licensing options on other corporate solutions.
If you are charging to buy WB, and install the skin, plus labor it'd d be cool to kick a little something back to the artist.
KillerNotebooks
Reply #20 Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
Reply #20 Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
Thanks for the info, I think kickin something back tot he artist is more than fair.
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Reply #1 Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:30 PM
of the people i know who have used the WB's or the vista betas, it's split 50/50. Some love it for the same reasons as me, some disagree on the same grounds - its too transparent that it's a distraction - it's too bulky - it's ugly. I suppose whether you love it or hate it depends on your working style.
I personally have no desire to change it. It's a home run. But then, i got sick of XP Blue at some point, too.
If you can find a way to skin it, people will skin it. Building upon the glass look, or just modifying the style to have different colors or effects. I don't think it will slow the skinning train down, but, i've gotten off a couple stops ago.
Gadgets certainly will only become more popular, and there is always shell customization.