EU - tough on software companies, weak on terrorist states..

The EU takes on Microsoft, closes eyes to Iran

Sunday, July 16, 2006 by Draginol | Discussion: Microsoft

This past week the EU put another $357 million fine on Microsoft over anti-trust issues. This is on top of the previous $300+ million fine and the on-going $2+ million per day ongoing fine.  When it comes to dealing with the global threat posed by American software giant, Microsoft, the EU is quite brave.

Meanwhile, Europe heads towards year 4 of completely unproductive negotiations with Iran, a country that has made it clear that they are pushing to have nuclear weapons.  Iran, as you may recall, has publicly promised to annihilate Israel in a ball of fire and whose missiles are likely able to reach Europe.

Luckily for Iran, they are not bundling a media player with their nuclear program or else the EU might then finally take the threat seriously.

Neelie Kroes, the "competition" commissioner for the European Union, apparently earned her nickname "Nickel Neelie" because she's tough in the same way as the "Iron Lady" Margaret Thatcher -- at least that's what pundits are saying.  Really? REALLY?

No, I don't see the similarity. One was a leader in the war against terrorist forces, tyranny, and oppression around the world even when it was unpopular.  The other is a beareucrat who is sticking it to a foreign software company for reasons I doubt she fully grasps in a move that is very popular with "the people".

Kroes claims that what Microsoft has to do to comply with the ruling is "crystal clear".  Microsoft disagrees.  I would be interested in the "crystal clear" camp to come forward and demonstrate that clarity. As a software developer, I find the EU's demands to be vague in the extreme. You can read the official document here.

For example, the ruling demands that Microsoft "disclose complete and accurate interface documentation" so that their cmopetitors can achieve "full interoperability" with Windows PCs and servers.  What the hell is "interface documentation"? What exactly is the official excuse of its competitors in not being able to work with Windows PCs and servers? 

Tiny software developer Stardock, where I work, has managed to create software that seamlessly extends the feature set of Windows as if it's part of the OS.  Heck, we have software that actually can alter the Windows GUI -- a pretty low level part of the OS -- to look like whatever we want. And we did that without "interface documentation" let alone source code or any other special help. 

The only aspect of the ruling that seems clear is that Microsoft has to provide OEMs a version of Windows without Windows Media Player.  But even that is vague if you're a software developer. Does that just mean the player app or the underlying codecs and libraries that are relied on by thousands of programs?

My point isn't to make Microsoft out to be an angel. They're not. They've been quite ruthless over the years.  But it strikes me as absurd to see the court jump on Microsoft with massive fines while playing footsie with nations like Iran.  Heck, the EU had a lot more patience with Saddam Hussein -- a decade of UN security counsel resolutions -- and still didn't want to do anything particularly strong.

From an outsider's point of view, it just strikes me as ludicrious to see how quick the EU can muster significant sanctions against a computer software company but demand "patience" if the threat against them is actually, you know, real.

Kroes writes:

I must say that I find it difficult to imagine that a company like Microsoft does not understand the principles of how to document protocols in order to achieve interoperability.

Spoken like a true non-technical person. It takes two to, ahem, interoperate. I suspect that there are plenty of people at Microsoft scratching their heads wondering "What more do these people want? Do we have to actually code up the software used by our competitors for them, hand it to them and provide a developer to sit there and answer CS 101 questions?"

How about answer this question: What specifically is the problem that these unnamed competitors are having? What specifically do they need in order to interoperate?  If the answer includes "source code" then they need to start hiring software developers who have training in...software development.

Lest someone think I'm some sort of Microsoft fanboy, I spent the first several years of my career as an OS/2 developer. I saw some pretty unsavory tactics used by Microsoft to win the OS market. If the EU (or US courts for that matter) had gotten involved then, they could have made specific requirements that would have made sense not just to lay people but software developers as well (such as "You can't charge an OEM $6 to bundle Windows for Workgroups but then charge IBM $20.50 for every WinOS2 license used in OS/2."). 

But the EU isn't doing that. They are basically asking Microsoft, after the fact, to magically make its competitors more effective and at some point, the competitors have to step up and...start competing.  And by levying such massive sanctions, it only brings into stark relief how weak the EU is on real tyranny, oppression, and danger in the world.  The whole situation would appear a little less ridiculous if, for instance, the EU could muster up some sanctions against say Iran.  The Iron lady would certainly support that. 

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bussie
Reply #61 Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:56 PM
Frogboy did say:
No, Americans don't think it's good. But we also believe that the blame for the violence can be put to the people who initiated the attacks, not Israel.



You are missing my point i think.

The kind of reaction that Israel is taking now is much too strong i think in comparison to what is the reason why Israel is now doing all the attacks.

If the US really does think that it is not good what Israel is doing, then the US would already have told Israel "stop the attacks" and the secretary of foreign affairs of the US would already have gone to Israel, but no, she is going next week wednesday or something like that.
President Bush was also very clear on tv, he doesn't mind what is happening to innocent people in Lebanon.

And a general from Israel told on tv, as long we have no visit from the US, we have card blanch on attacking Lebanon and we will do it.
Island Dog
Reply #62 Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:42 PM
President Bush was also very clear on tv, he doesn't mind what is happening to innocent people in Lebanon.


And I haven't seen anyone complaining about Israelis being killed or held hostage.
Adamness
Reply #63 Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:43 PM
I didn't say the US *is*, I said it *is becoming*


You all should check out John Dean's new book. I think I recall the words "proto-fascist."   
starkers
Reply #64 Friday, July 21, 2006 10:43 AM

For the THIRD time (sigh! ): I didn't say the US *is*, I said it *is becoming*


Jorge...I was not responding to your comments directly but voicing an opinion to those who do believe the U.S. has become a police state, to point out there is a difference between being policemen to the world and imposing blanket martial law. However, while I believe a country has the right to defend itself, I do agree with you that the U.S. Patriot Act has far reaching powers which could go over the top without proper checks and balances....but then, that's a domestic issue for the American people, and if the majority there approve it to combat terrorism on U.S. soil, then the U.S. gov't has a mandate to implement it, whether or not foreign approval is forthcoming or not.

As I said before, I don't agree with some U.S. policies/actions, not as an anti-Bush, anti-American thing, but more that I felt there may have been better alternatives ...but then, it's easy to criticise in ignorance of the available options to them, and I'd rather have the U.S. there than not. Without the U.S.' rise to prominence, what other political cream would have risen to the top? That's the question I keep asking myself...whether or not I like some U.S. policies, I shudder to think what would have become of the world if other major powers has risen to prominence instead.

Call it accepting the lesser of two evils if you like (not directed at anyone in particular), but I'm just being practical, given the track records of some of those alternative powers. For example, had the Hilter, Mussolini and/or Stalinist eras prevailed, none of us would even be having this discussion...our freedom of speech/choice non-existent, cut off at the knees by the powers of TRUE police states.

Then of course there is another what if, had the U.S. not ended Saddam's regime. What if Iran and Iraq became best bum buddies again, to further their aspirations of greater regional power, and for good measure convinced the other WMD aspirants in Asia to open another front as a distraction? Would the toothless tiger diplomacy of the EU have countered/prevented that possibility?

Am I pro-U.S.A? Absolutely Not! I'm pro-Australia and accept, am grateful for the fact that the U.S. is our friend and ally. Thing is, rather than embrace friendship, discuss and negotiate, I'm seeing that some the U.S. is willing to befriend are more willing to criticise and condemn, shit on and penalise.....and penalise is exactly what the EU is doing to Microsoft. It's not because Windows includes a media player, but seems more likely to be that MS is successful, has the source codes, and EU software developers are sadly lacking the innovation and effort to compete squarely in an international market, so much so they need a leg up from MS to compete.

What I cannot grasp is how on earth these economic imbeciles think protectionism and fining Microsoft obscene amounts is going to help create a more equitable playing field for the EU. If anything, it'll stifle growth and development because eliminating competition stifles incentive and innovation, the need and desire to perform better.

There are, of course, several successful and innovative European developers, but they're not the ones lobbying and whining to the EU, and I apologise that my 'generalised' take on things may appear to include them, it certainly does not.
Draginol
Reply #65 Friday, July 21, 2006 12:12 PM

And the same could be said about those who believe anyone who doesn't think like them, or agrees with US foreign policy, is myopic.

Please re-read what I wrote. I did not say anyone was myopic because of their opinions one way or the other.  I said those that think that the only reason someone can have a particular opinion is due to being misinformed.  I can understand that people in continental Europe don't like US/UK foreign policy. That's fine. But to assert that they have a monopoly on enlightenment while those in the US who disagree with them must be a bunch of brainwashed CNN watchers IS myopic.

Anyway, why do you keep insisting on labeling those on the other side of your point of view as 'Europeans' (why not Africans, or simply non-US citizens?) and those who agree with you as 'Americans'? Is it because it is easier to focus if you generalize? Europeans are ungrateful. All Arabs are terrorists. The only good Indian is a dead Indian.

Because it was the EU, not Africa that just imposed an additional $350+ million dollar sanction on a computer software company for not instantly reading the EU minister's mind on what exactly she wants them to do while having endless patience with the terrorist state of Iran in negotiations.   But thanks for trying to belittle my opinion by trying to dismiss my views as that of some ignorant bigot. If only I were as wise and enlightened as you are on foreign affairs..

I know plenty of American people, some of which you respect, who agree with my point of view and think Bush is the worst thing that could have ever happened to the US. Sadly, I don't know of any European who thinks that Bush and his foreign policy are good - which must mean we are ALL myopic, of course.

That's more a statement of the people you choose to associate in social conditions.  I know plenty of people - from around the world - who agree with US foreign policy.  But what does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that the "correct" opinion is the opinion that has the most support?  I don't see too many people supporting the EU's sanction against Microsoft.

And I'll ask you again to re-read what I wrote. *I* am not the one saying that those who disagree with my point of view are myopic or ignorant or misinformed, etc.  It is those who disagree with my point of view that are prescribing all manner of crude connotations for my opinions -- that I'm ignorant, brainwashed, misinformed and as you imply above, maybe I'm also some sort of xenophobic bigot.  An opinion isn't myopic. What can be myopic is the rationale you have for an opinion.

And by the way, as you know only too well, Europe is NOT a single nation like the US. Europe is a continent made of tens of INDIVIDUAL nations.

Furthermore, if you try to make this a case of us (Americans) vs them (Europeans), all you will achieve is generating ill feelings between the two groups. I would hate to see a nice argument degenerate into a name calling and rotten tomato throwing session.

*I* am not the one trying to turn this into a "Europe" as in the population of Europe. You seem to be though.  This discussion is about the EU -- the European Union.  Certainly I use the term Europe and the EU interchangeably in the context of this discussion which is no different in my opinion to someone using the label American to describe a citizen of the United States who happens to support the policy of the Republican administration that currently is in charge of US foreign policy. 

At some point, one does assume that in a discussion that uses the label "EU" in its title that people undersatnd we're talking about the EU.  This isn't a United States vs. Portugal, Germany, etc.  This is a Microsoft vs. European Union as in the supra-national organization.

There is a place called Guantanamo Bay where people are held for months, even years, without a right to a lawyer or a fair trial. *Some* of them are innocent, they were put there because a disgruntled neighbor rated them out to the US forces as a terrorist sympathizer. Is it ok because that place is outside the US? Is it ok because the people there are not US citizens but *potential* terrorists? The US administration even tried to claim that the prisoners there were not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Convention!!!! Doh?! (Something which the US Supreme Court ruled against on June 19, 2006, thanks God!)

Good god I don't even know where to start on this. And in every war there are POW camps where people are held for years, many of whom did nothing except be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The difference here is that these are POWs, these are people who were not following any of the conventions (those Geneva ones you speak highly of).  And said conventions have specific requirements in order for them to apply to you which the hundreds of people (not thousands, hundreds) are being kept.


 

starkers
Reply #66 Friday, July 21, 2006 4:59 PM
Good god I don't even know where to start on this. And in every war there are POW camps where people are held for years, many of whom did nothing except be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The difference here is that these are POWs, these are people who were not following any of the conventions
This, is one of those things I don't like, would do differently. Whilst terrorism must be met with strong opposition, penalties befitting the crime, I can not agree with holding prisoners without trial in sub-standard prisons, for that is tarring ones-self with the same brush....inhumanity being met and punished with inhumanity. The right thing to do would be to expediently hold legal and fair trials for the accused, then immediately dispense the appropriate penalty upon conclusion of said trials if found guilty. If the sentence is death, then so be it, but a humane execution sanctioned by the courts would be more widely accepted by the international community than indefinite imprisonment without due process.... If however, after due process, the sentence is life imprisonment, then those convicted must be humanely incarcerated in non-military prisons on U.S. soil to give credibility to the justice, fair and democratic processes so vehemently touted by the U.S. government. To do otherwise, in my opinion, would be seen as hypocrisy by the international community and counter-productive to fostering good relations based on the mutual respect of civilised parties...as in more moderate countries viewing the current situation similarly to a kangaroo court, like the pot calling the kettle black, etc, etc. I do not say this because there is an Australian in Guantanamo. In fact, if Mr Hicks is indeed guilty of terrorist acts and is proven to be so, then he should be held accountable for his actions and appropriately punished. If that means a death sentence, so be it. I don't have a problem with that, just that he and others are being held in a sub-standard military prison without trial, the due process which would legally entitle the U.S. gov't to imprison him/them, and that's not right. Also, this is not about the Geneva Convention, because no convention is going to impose niceties on war....there are no niceties in war, just rules of engagement and casualties. No, its about human decency, leading by example and doing unto others as you would have them do to you., because losing sight of these fundamental principles allows for one to become that which one most dislikes and fears the most...devoid of humanity, capable of inhuman acts.

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