The State of Skinning: 2007 Edition

Monday, March 3, 2008 by Frogboy | Discussion: OS Customization

Another year has passed!  It's that time of the year again where we look back on last year and do a post mortem on where skinning has been and where it's going. You can see last year's here. 2007 was a pretty big year for skinning. A sucky year but big nevertheless.

What is skinning?

Skinning is the process of customizing the look and feel of something to your personal taste.  If you could change the shape and color of your car, you could say your car was skinnable.  Over the past few years, the concept of customizing the look and feel of computer software has become very popular to the point that "skinning" has made its way from personal computer interfaces to the physical world with products like "SkinIt" (which skin the outside of your computer) . Many hand held devices now come with "skinnable covers". Skinning has become more than mainstream, it's started to become ubiquitous.

For the purposes of this article, I'm going to stick with what's happening on Windows PC since that's where most of the consumer market is these days (Linux is very skinnable in various forms though).

Who am I?

My name is Brad Wardell. I'm the founder and President/CEO of a company called Stardock.  We make all kinds of stuff from PC games like Sins of a Solar Empire / Galactic Civilizations to desktop customization software such as WindowBlinds, Object Desktop, etc. 

To detractors, I'm the personification of evil capitalism gone astray. In the alternative history, skinning was this wonderful grass roots movement full of free and wonderful technologies. Then, one day, this greedy, blood sucking creature came and commercialized it -- buying out all the pure hearted freeware developers and then brain washing them to become my robotic minions of pestilence. But to fans..I, um, well if I had fans they'd probably say I have nice hair. Or not.

But on a more accurate note, while it wouldn't be accurate to say we invented skinning. We were probably the first or one of the very first to create software with the explicit intent of changing the look and feel of the user interface back in 1994 with a program called Object Desktop for OS/2.  We didn't call it skinning back then. No, we called them Dynamic Interface Modules (DIMs). Cough.  For some reason, DIMs didn't take off as a name. Skins, coined by people modding the video game DOOM, did. 

 

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Object Desktop for OS/2 (1994). See the tabbed "dock" on the bottom and the "side bar" on the right? The program also changed icons and the window borders, buttons, scrollbars, etc.

Suffice to say, I've been into this stuff for quite a long time.  This article is by no means complete as I do not know about all things skinning in all places in the universe. But I do try to keep up with what's relevant and what sorts of cool new stuff is being made to give users more power over their computing experience.

 

2007: Not a great year for skinning

Windows Vista has not been good for skinning.  First, it's a lot harder to customize things in the OS because of all the "security" features. Secondly, supporting 64-bit Windows Vista is a pain in the butt for desktop enhancement developers which makes customization painful for those users who have the highest end version of Windows.

On Windows XP, skinners had two viable options for skinning the entire OS. You had WindowBlinds (which Stardock makes) or you could patch a .msstyles file using StyleBuilder and then anyone who was running a cracked version of uxtheme.dll could use the subsequent .msstyles visual style to change the look of Windows.  On Windows Vista...well, things aren't quite so nice (unless you're a user of WindowBlinds which is really nice - for Stardock anyway).

Vista: Msstyles

Windows Vista has .msstyles too but the format is obfuscated. In XP, the format was literally documented. So there is no StyleBuilder equivalent to making a .msstyles file on Vista. Instead, it involves hex editing your own .msstyles bit by bit. Even then, only small parts of the Aero (the default Windows Vista skin -- that glassy look) have been changed so far in the resulting Vista .msstyles.

So basically, even if you manage to resource hack out your own msstyles file for Vista, it's probably going to look pretty similar to Aero except for different bitmaps in different places.

And as if that wasn't enough, getting your system to run these .msstyles can be a pain as it involved cracking uxtheme.dll still but also a couple of other files -- which tend to get overwritten on occasion by Windows Update.

The one piece of good news for uxtheme patchers is Rafael from WithinWindows.com has been keeping on top of the updates to uxtheme and provided regular updates to the patches when they get broken.

Skinning-wise, the selection of skins is pretty slim. The Neowin.net community for Vista msstyles is probably the best one I've seen on the net for collecting the best .msstyles. If someone makes an editor, this may change but it won't solve the issue of the underlying tech getting broken with new updates to Windows. For instance, a Windows update this past Fall broke all of the existing .msstyles.  On the bright side, it's all free.

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ProjectX by SweatyFish Vista .msstyles theme

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Next-Level by VaThanx

The main problem problem skinners are running into with msstyles on Vista (besides the fact that they're incredibly time consuming to make a skin) is that they're ultimately derivatives of Aero. The skinners don't really have control over transparency, shape, button placement, etc. So you ultimately end up with something that is similar to Aero.  But most people like Aero and the price is right.

Vista: WindowBlinds

Stardock's WindowBlinds 6 works natively on Windows Vista. When run, it incorporates itself into the Windows Vista DWM and is actually slightly faster than Aero on moving and resizing of windows.  Because WindowBlinds has an editor and its skins can run on both XP and Vista, it has a lot more skins. But that also means there's a lot more crap for it as well. That's the #1 criticism of WindowBlinds by users - lots of skins, lots of them ugly.  By contrast, because msstyles on Vista require real dedication to finish, the completed ones tend to look nicer (as a %) than the typical WindowBlinds skin.  But there's a lot more WindowBlinds skins and hence more good skins as well -- but users do end up having to wade through a lot of junk to get to them.

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Aero Metal by Stardock Design

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Harmony by VStyler

One thing that would help out the WindowBlinds skinning community would be to take better screenshots of their work. A lot of the skins are actually pretty good but look horrible in screenshots. Looking through the WindowBlinds gallery on WinCustomize one doesn't even need to look closely at the thumbnail to go "Blech" at the screenshots. Wallpapers should offer a contrast to your design. Purple on purple is not your friend.

So when it comes to actually changing the Windows experience, WindowBlinds has the upper hand by far but it comes at a price. It's $19.95 whereas patching your system files is free.

 

2007: Vista makes life tough

What is it with Microsoft and confirmation dialogs? Ever try to edit your Windows Live Messenger contact list? Go ahead, try to delete a contact. I'll wait.  Confirmations. You can't get rid of them.  Copying a file from a network drive gives you a confirmation dialog too -- as if I had a muscle spasm when I dragged and dropped files.  But all that's a picnic compared to trying to actually integrate new features into the OS.  That's because the User Account Control system (UAC) is evil.

How evil is it? It's diabolical. For example, to keep hackers from easily writing their evil stuff (one presumes) UAC will create virtual, temporary directories and paths that fool the application into thinking it's actually working. Only later, during a wide beta does one realize that no, it's not actually working because it's not putting the data in the directory you told it to but rather some other directory that may or may not be there when you reboot. The whole thing has made my cry several times. And there's nothing more awkard than hearing a grown man curl up in the fetal position on the office floor sobbing loudly. No one knows how to respond to that.  That's what the UAC has done. That's what it's brought me to.

 

2007: Skinning too damn popular

Most users know about skinning at this point. Many consumers expect their favorite programs to be skinnable. Heck, even Valve's Steam is skinnable!  In the old days, people had to smoke or drink to be cool. Now you just make your app skinnable and you're cool. Come on, everyone else is doing it...

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Even Steam is skinnable

Of course the downside of that is that evil capitalistic bastards who would grind your bones into powder if they could sell it (come on over, I have something I want to show you..) are hiring up all the skinners because there's just so much demand for people with an ounce of design capability. And we're only at the beginning of this trend as we'll see later.  So that means that communities full of free cool stuff are losing a lot of their most talented people to the bone powder producing corporations.

Combine the migration of skinners to a gazillion different programs to make the bucks with the fact that there's now a gazillion different versions of Windows to deal with and you have a lot fewer skinners per app.

Meanwhile, the number of users into this stuff just keeps growing and growing!

 

2007: Advances in Skinning

In 2007, advances mostly meant getting the thing to work on Windows Vista.  Some programs had a harder time than others.

WindowBlinds

At the risk of showing my bias, I think most objective people would agree that the biggest news in skinning last year was the release of WindowBlinds 6. With its support for native glass on both XP and Vista, animated start menus, and in-depth skinning of Vista controls, it was a bright point in an otherwise transitional year.

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Turbo for WindowBlinds 6

 

DeskScapes

Despite only working with Windows Vista Ultimate Edition, DeskScapes has helped make the case that yes, people want animated wallpapers. Typically 3 or more .Dream files (animated wallpapers) fall into the top 20 each week on WinCustomize.  With DeskScapes 2.0 arriving in 2008 which promises to bring animated wallpapers to all users of Windows Vista and possibly beyond that too, animated wallpapers could be a huge thing next year.

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DeskScapes on Windows Vista Ultimate

 

Talisman

Developer Lightek hasn't been resting on its laurels either. Their popular alternative shell for Windows, Talisman, was updated to work with Windows Vista this year.

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Talisman replaces Explorer with one that users can design themselves.

 

Aston Shell

Like Talisman, Aston Shell is on its x.9999 version which is largely the existing version but working with Vista. I suspect this year both will launch their next-generation editions.

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Aston Shell

Like Talisman, Aston Shell will replace your entire Explorer shell with one that users can apply themes to that radically alter its appearance.

Which one you prefer depends on tons of factors I won't even try to touch.

 

Adobe Air

What? You haven't heard of Adobe Air?  Adobe Air is Adobe's attempt to let people create web applications that work also on the desktop.  Should these count as skinnable? It's hard to say. But it's a platform that skinners are looking seriously at.

 

Microsoft Silverlight

Silverlight could be best described as a .NET version of Flash.  It and Adobe Air are essentially competitors. Both are cross-platform and both sing a similar siren song to skinners to go play with them.  Like Adobe Air, the question of whether this is a skinnable platform or not is obvious.  That remains to be seen. Skinning, it seems has evolved to where entire platforms are being made just so that people who like to make custom stuff can make more and more complex stuff.

 

2007: Things that tanked

Remember widgets? Remember gadgets? These were going to take over the world.  Didn't happen.

In fact, CNET, like us, were so wrong about widgets that they listed widgets being successful as their single worst prediction of 2007.   As I was going through my notes for this article, I wasn't trying to fit any particular narrative, I simply recognized a pattern that all of the major downers of last year were related to widget-related programs.

Windows Sidebar is a dud

Just how big a failure is the Windows Vista Sidebar? Even though it's trivially easy to skin, hardly anyone bothers to make skins for it. Heck, most people just turn it off once they figure out how to. It's just completely useless. The Sidebar gallery on WinCustomize has had 1 skin since October. WindowBlinds 6, which supports Sidebar skins has virtually no skins for it.  If you look at the screenshots of people using the Sidebar, you can tell they're not really using it. A clock and maybe a CPU meter?  Take a look back at the screenshot at the start of this article from 1994. That sidebar (Control Center for OS/2) was more useful than the Sidebar. At least it had really good virtual desktops built in. The gallery at Live.com is similarly depressing. The Sidebar should just be quietly taken in back and shot.

 

Stardock DesktopX 3.5: MIA!

And where's Stardock's own DesktopX 3.5? Helloooo? Each month Stardock has said "it's coming out this month!" (I should know, I'm the one who was saying that).  Besides the fact that it proves I'm a filthy liar, what else does DesktopX 3.5's absence mean?  It means developing for Vista is a huge pain in the butt.

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DesktopX does widgets and desktops. DesktopX widgets largely consist of a trillion weather widgets.

For example, many of the best DesktopX widgets make use of low level system info to tell you useful things about your system. But not on Vista. On Vista, that sort of info is locked out. Forget it.  DesktopX has included a special library called DXPerf for years which contains a ton of little functions that let widget makers create all kinds of interesting and useful content. It's dead in Vista. It'll have to be rewritten.

Then there's scripting. Microsoft apparently really has it out for VB Scripting as all kinds of work had to be done to make sure that scripts work right.  Now, I don't want to make it out that having better security on Vista is a bad idea. It's not. Good for Microsoft for taking it more seriously. But it does mean the transition is a huge pain in the ass.

None of this means that DesktopX is d0med. There are people who like widgets and gadgets and the like. But I think what you'll end up seeing is DesktopX transitioning more to building desktops rather than widgets.

The saddest part of all: The most significant new feature for DesktopX 3.5 is that it can create content for (wait for it) The Windows Sidebar!

 

Yahoo has ruined Konfabulator

Konfabulator was once a really innovative little program for the Mac and later the PC that let users create desktop widgets with Javascript. It got pretty popular - it peeked just as the widget craze was peeking and got bought by Yahoo.  Good for Arlo Rose and co.  But bad for Konfabulator and its commuity.

5778_1_6_02Chit[1]
Yes, this is an actual Yahoo Widget (Konfabulator)..widget these days. This is the currently highlighted one.

Rebranded as Yahoo Widgets, it took about 2 years for Yahoo to run it into the ground.  Prepare yourself, here is the new Yahoo Widgets home page.  Gone are the forums for discussing widgets. Gone is the really slick, useful, and easy to use gallery. And gone are the cutting edge, sweet looking widgets.  Gone is the community support.

Yahoo Widgets isn't dead. But it might as well be.

 

Windows Presentation Foundation a great API waiting for decent apps

image Okay. Vista's been out a year now.  So...where are those WPF applications? You know, the ones that showed the fancy glass effects and 3D animation right on the desktop.  WPF apps, in theory, are supposed to be able to be made using a drawing package. Super cool 3D mega apps! I'm so ready.  I've seen the demos. Yahoo's next-gen instant messenger is going to use it. I know, I saw it um, 2 years ago. So go ahead, try it out. It's really pretty.  Apparently they're waiting until SP1 ships so that it runs decently. So there's one app..

I happen to be quite a fan of Windows Presentation Foundation. But the performance just isn't there yet.  Windows Vista needs to get more hardware acceleration at the desktop level. So it will be interesting to see what SP1 brings.  But in 2007, WPF was a ball of suck.

 

2008: I can see clearly now, the rain is gone

So for skinners, 2007 kind of sucked.  If you were a user of Windows XP who decided to let other people be the first to migrate to Vista, you got to sit back and watch developers and skinners cater to the small % of people who had moved to Vista.  If you were a Vista 32-bit user, you got to see apps slowly and inconsistently work.  And if you were a 64-bit Vista user, two thugs in orange jump suits beat the crap out of you and threw you out telling you to wait yer turn.

But 2008 will be different, I promise*!   (*not a promise)

 

2008: Object Desktop grows up, exits basement, gets job and girlfriend

Object Desktop is the grand daddy of the skinning world. It has millions of users in one form or other of it. It's the program of choice by power users to transform their Windows experience. If you want the "ultimate Windows transformation" you get Object Desktop.

Popularity has not been kind to Object Desktop. Sure, the money is good but it was not a product designed for casual users.  Object Desktop 2007 is a suite of desktop enhancements. And by suite I mean like 20+ different programs. A power user would buy it, download it, and then carefully use each one.  By contrast, the general consumer buys it, downloads it, and then quickly runs through every program turning everything on at once -- on their 5 year old spyware infested PC, and then calling (by phone of course) Stardock support screaming that "it broke!"

Since Stardock still wants the money (needed to buy the rare tears of ultimate agony that I use to cheat death another day) of mainstream users and the power users, it is splitting Object Desktop into two products: Object Desktop and Object Desktop Ultimate.

Object Desktop 2008 will be a totally new experience. A user who buys it gets a single link to a single download which downloads and installs the core components already properly configured. Moreover, it's just the core pieces of Object Desktop: WindowBlinds, IconPackager, DesktopX, SoundPackager, MyColors,  DeskScapes.  Not the 20+ programs that users could hang themselves with if they weren't careful (one can imagine what a day at tech support at Partition Magic must have been like when it became really popular).

Then for power users, Object Desktop Ultimate is there which includes the 20+ programs. That way, power users can still go crazy customizing their desktop and mainstream users can buy something for $50 that really takes care of all the basic customization stuff they want without sifting through power user utilities.

 

2008: MyColors! Look at me! Look at me!

I hope I am making the narrative clear here: When skinning got started, it was basically just geeks like me messing around with our computers. Then one day, skinning became hip and all these people came rushing in who had never heard of regsrv32 or how to modify registry keys.  Let me put it like this: In 2001, the #1 skinning site at the time, skinz.org got around 3,000 unique visitors per day. Today, WinCustomize.com gets around 100,000 unique visitors per day. And that doesn't count deviantART which gets 30X that traffic (though not for skinning).

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MyColors 2008

Stardock's big 2008 goal is to be able to provide for all these normal people without sacrificing the cool stuff it provided to power users.  MyColors is one example of this.  It basically integrates all the various customization technologies together and sells consumers completed themes.  Users don't have to worry about the software, there is no software, just the themes and the program (MyColors) to choose which theme to apply.  Some might argue that MyColors will take sales away from Object Desktop.  Stardock would respond that that is a feature. For people who just want to make Windows look like a particular theme are better off just getting a MyColors theme letting the users who are really into this stuff get Object Desktop.

There are already hundreds of MyColors themes including partnerships with the NCAA, NHL, NBA, GM, Ford, and many other companies to provide branded themes as well as inspirational themes.  MyColors will also come with Object Desktop with a few free themes given out each year.

 

2008: The Icon Problem Addressed

Golly Windows Vista has pretty icons.  Too bad Vista basically ignores all icons over 48x48 if they're not the new 256x256 icons. Which means that programs without updated icons look ugly on Vista.

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IconPackager 4

IconPackager 4 will let users on Vista automatically recolor, resize, and choose their own live folders. That means the cool icons that have been made over the years will have a home of Vista again.

 

2008: 64-bit users get to sit at the table

You people with your fancy 64-bit PCs yelling about not getting enough love. Well, that's what you get for having fancy schmancy PCs.  Besides, a goodly % of 64-bit PC Windows users are dummies anyway.  If you don't have at least 4 gigabytes of memory (and even then, it's barely worth it) and have a 64-bit Windows PC for desktop use then suck it up because you probably made a dumb decision. 

I realize that statement will generate tons of flame comments by nerdlings living in basements everywhere but it's the truth (or 50+ year olds who think 64-bit computing is inherently faster or better and will spend hours talking theoreticals about it while ignoring the practical reality of it on the desktop with today's programs). 

Now, for those of you with 64-bit PCs with 4 gigs or more, I can sympathize.  Not personally of course, I wouldn't be caught dead with a X64 Windows unless I really really needed at least 8 gigabytes of memory for something (like a 64-bit SQL server but then, I wouldn't have that on my desktop).  But I'm more likely to get decent support out of Visual Studio for my Quadcore than I'm going to need 8 gigs of memory any time soon.  Yes, the comments section is where you get to flame me for my ignorance.

...ANYWAY... this year Stardock plans to seriously look to support X64 across the line.

 

2008: Silverlight 2.0

Will Silverlight 2 from Microsoft be a big deal? Redmond Magazine describes it as follows:

"The expectation is that Silverlight is going to follow something close to the page model in WPF, which is not the same as the Web page model or the Windows model," says Rockford Lhotka, Microsoft MVP and principal technology evangelist for consultancy Magenic Technologies Inc.

In fact, Silverlight 2.0 is a lot closer to WPF than many people think, asserts Guthrie, who describes the technology as a compatible subset of both .NET and WFP in a recent Channel9 video.

"Everything that we've added is designed to be system.namespace-compatible with .NET," he says.

That includes the subset of the Common Language Runtime, core base class library, Language Integrated Query (LINQ), the networking stack and the XML stack. Unlike JavaScript, Silverlight version 2.0 supports cross-domain network access, which allows an app to callback to servers other than the one from which it was downloaded.

Silverlight 2.0 also promises a much richer UI controls framework, according to Guthrie. Developers can use the familiar server-side .NET controls model (WinForms, ASP.NET) with the vector-based graphics model of WPF. Version 2.0 includes layout, templates, styles, databinding and list controls, among other features. VS 2008 tool support for databinding is expected in the MIX08 timeframe, according to Guthrie.

"Everything that's in Silverlight from an API perspective is in WPF," he explains, including properties, methods and syntax. "It's still a subset, but a much bigger subset than people were imagining."

So will Silverlight matter in 2008? I think we'll start seeing some proto-sites with it that make use of it. Microsoft has the pieces, they just have to get them together.

 

2008: Skinners take center stage

Supply and demand. They say that's a big deal. Who knew.

Skinners have the commanding heights now over developers. Now, everyone has a platform for skinners. Silverlight wants you. Adobe Air wants you. Stardock wants you. Lighttek wants you.  Even my pet turtle is working on something called MegaDesk. I think 2008 is going to be the battle of content.

In the past, software developers would toss something out on the net and say "Hey, look what I made!"  Over time, that model of doing things began to change. 

When Konfabulator came on the scene, Stardock didn't take it seriously because DesktopX was technically superior to it.  Why would anyone choose Konfabulator over DesktopX? Konfabualtor could only do Javascript. DesktopX could do JavaScript or VB Script.  Konfabulator widgets had to be made with a text editor. DesktopX included a built in editor with built in support for animation, states, etc.

But Konfabulator then proceeded to kick DesktopX's ass because Konfabulator understood something Stardock didn't - people don't give a crap about the technology. They care about the content.  The technology does matter, just ask someone whose patched uxtheme and after a Windows update can't boot (oh wait, I forgot, that scenario never happens according to their very vocal advocates, damn phantoms).  So while technology matters, it only matters insomuch that it lets the content work. Whoever has the most/best content wins.

In 2008, the actual skinners are the limiting factor. Everyone wants them, but there's only a finite supply of them. One result: Master skinning will continue to grow.

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Programs like Impulse will allow users to manage not just their software but their content too demonstrating the increasing importance of content

Master skins are the concept in which skinners who have been in the skinning community awhile are able to sell their creations.  The Master Skin program has been a tremendous success.  I've seen the numbers and some skinners could live off their creations if they were doing it full time.  Some people may long for the "old days" but the days of Winamp and WindowBlinds being the only games in town are long gone. Now, skinners are busy making web 2.0 websites, working for companies designing UIs for their applications, etc.  The demand for talented skinners is huge these days.  And we'll all have to adapt to it.

 

Conclusions

So there you have it.  2007 was a bit of a sucky year for skinners.  Vista was a pain in the ass to get existing things working on.  If you want to create cool new stuff on Vista, it's very painful unless you use Windows Presentation Foundation but if you do that, you'll find that your app is incredibly slow until SP1 arrives. And with so many new platforms to choose from, the skinning community is extremely fragmented.  And plus, Bill Gates retired which just makes me sad.

But 2008 looks much better. The transition to Vista should be completed soon. The software will get polished. More focus will be put on the actual skins. And skinning will likely  move from just being mainstream to ubiquitous.  

So hold onto your hats, this year should be a great ride!

First Previous Page 2 of 3 Next Last
Island Dog
Reply #21 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 7:09 AM
What about the ThinkDesk series?


Not sure that ThinkDesk qualifies too much in the skinning department.  There is more info about the future of ThinkDesk here.

https://www.wincustomize.com/Articles.aspx?aid=301358




Vad_M
Reply #22 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 8:51 AM
A several words about DesktopX...

For example, many of the best DesktopX widgets make use of low level system info to tell you useful things about your system. But not on Vista. On Vista, that sort of info is locked out. Forget it.

No problems at least for me. More than I have never used DX to create system meters. And these meters are always work for me on XP and Vista! There are one useful thing in Windows - WMI. People just need learn it and make a simple codes that will display any information about PC...

By the way I think that Stadock has made one greater mistake! They supported cloning of "weathers" and "clocks" based on the outdated scripts instead of supporting our creative activity for a new script development.    On this reason I lost a sense to make and(or) upload new projects here.

Why? First of all of these projects will disappear between a thousands of clones. And secondly I see that the overwhelming majority of people here don't wish to study VBScript or Java. They want to use old another's scripts with a several own PNG-files to make a widgets...

But where is the progress in this case? And who must create the scripts for these people? I'm not ready to spend a years of my life for this any more...

Its a shame, for a program with as much potential as DX to just be used to show the weather over and over..

Agree with RomanDA. This is really a big shame. I can observe how one of the Best Software in the World loses its lead positions step by step. And this make me very, very sad...  ( 
RomanDA
Reply #23 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:41 AM
Why? First of all of these projects will disappear between a thousands of clones. And secondly I see that the overwhelming majority of people here don't wish to study VBScript or Java. They want to use old another's scripts with a several own PNG-files to make a widgets...


Let me agree 100% with this, and to say that this is the PRIME reason i believe there needs to be a SPLIT in the DX Galleries, and i have posted on this for over 2 years now, to no avail. Its really sad, but I'm right there with Vad on this, in giving up on DX here on WC. Its a shame that SD doesnt work with the people who use DX the most, and have tried VERY hard to get things fixed like the TASK BAR, SYSTEM TRAY that still do not work, the hell with VISTA, make DX 3.x WORK!! PLEASE. I have an entire post on problems, and issues, that not a single SD person has even replied to, it really takes all the steam out of working on DX.

SD would do better to make a Skinable Weather/clock/cal that people could just SKIN with SS and then you could leave the DX WIDGETS gallery to actual WIDGETS not skins. But when then WIDGET of the YEAR is a skin of someone else's code, that just shows you that DX is dead for real widget development (at least here).
killajosh
Reply #24 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:57 AM
From the way it looks, most people are just too lazy to learn the scripting needed to creat their own widgets. Why learn when you can just copy? I'd love to learn the coding needed to create a widget.

It's pretty sad that DX can do so much, yet most of what I see is indeed weather widgets. How many ways can you show the weather on your desktop? Some people are truly creative and make widgets that I use daily. Others just "cut and paste".

I don't really want to see the same widget in 1000 different skins.....
ZubaZ
Reply #25 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 10:32 AM
I don't really want to see the same widget in 1000 different skins...
Some people  do though.

That is not the problem.  The problem (as presented by RomanDA and Vad_M) is that the really innovative stuf is hidden under and between all teh near-cloned weather objects.

I really miss the filters of the old WC galleries where you could choose what sub-catagories to see and what not to see.
Carl (C242) came up with a skinning engin for DX meters that never caught on.  It's too bad because, if applied to weather widgets, could allieviated much of this issue.
zakai1369
Reply #26 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 10:50 AM
As someone still fairly new to the whole idea of skinning, I've got to say it was a very interesting read.



I especially like the sound of :

With DeskScapes 2.0 arriving in 2008 which promises to bring animated wallpapers to all users of Windows Vista and possibly beyond that too, animated wallpapers could be a huge thing next year.


  



Vad_M
Reply #27 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 11:53 AM
From the way it looks, most people are just too lazy to learn the scripting needed to creat their own widgets. Why learn when you can just copy?

On this reason I have saved the most complex of my projects as a gadgets before uploading here. This is my gifts for WC Community and I'm glad to see that people use my gadgets.

But I'm not ready to work on a complex scripts for Lazy People who don't want know nothing about the scripts and software that they uses for wifget development. At least free of charge... Everyone who wants to be lazy must pay money for this!

Its a shame that SD doesnt work with the people who use DX the most, and have tried VERY hard to get things fixed like the TASK BAR, SYSTEM TRAY that still do not work, the hell with VISTA, make DX 3.x WORK!! PLEASE.


As well as Windows Media Player ActiveX control doesn't work. So I can't use my new Media Player on Vista and I can't fix this by myself...

I may tell you more! I already began to study Microsoft Gadget SDK being in a deep mourning for DX 3.5 future...  ( 



sViz
Reply #28 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 12:57 PM
I have to agree with Vad_M and DA...to a degree.


This article couldn't be more true in regards to skinners v. developers. I too, noticed that over the last year (and even further back) the amount of people getting into skinning grew faster and faster while the amount of people getting into DX declined alarmingly. Back when I lurked the forums there were many new posts in the DX area every single day and now it is virtually dead.

To sum it up, DX is so powerful that no one knows what to do with it. To expand upon that let's compare DX to WB.


Supply and Demand

When you think of WB you know right off the bat who the core constituency is in supply and demand. Supply: Artists in graphic design. Demand: Pretty much anyone who owns a computer and wants to make their UI look cool. It's that simple, and you're looking at a VERY broad base of users.

When you think of DX, it is not as simple. On the supply side you get a very mixed group of developers that are serious enough to want to make a utility match their WB (which is basically skinning), want to create something novel (they dabble here and there), or want to create something cutting edge (which requires a lot of skill and acquired knowledge). All of them are doing their own thing, making their own apps and utilities.

On the demand side it's even more fuzzy. There are myriads of different demands for DX products. Just look at the Wish List thread and you'll see all kinds of ideas ranging from cool and practical to silly and improbable. If you look at what people are using the most (all time downloads) you'll see the same old utilities that simply match whatever WB the user is running. So, let's just say the demand, ie what people want out of a widget, is no exact science.


New Users (the ones that produce the goods)

A key factor, IMO, in what fuels new users in the WB arena is the vast amount of astounding work they can look at as examples of what they, too, can achieve. The results are so visible and visual you can SEE what a steadfast endeavor in WB can produce. It makes you go 'I want to do that, too!' Added to that is what the new user brings to the table. Clearly, those who take a serious interest in making WBs often already have a love for graphic design and art. So where the most skill is required for WB (graphic design), the new user, more often than not, already has that under his/her belt. WB is merely another way they can channel doing what they already love.

On the DX side of things, there is a serious lack of examples on the amazing things DX can do (as already stated the gallery is awash with weather widgets) but more than that is the fact that the most powerful and amazing things that are achieved with DX are categorically invisible, i.e. the hundreds of lines of coding that make the widget tick. You don't SEE that when you're browsing through the galleries, looking at thumbnails and happen to come upon what looks like yet another unimpressive thingamabob that does something or other.

More often than not, I read posts where someone just wants to know how they can get DX to do some task they want done on their computer. That may very well be what was envisioned for DX (I don't know) but that relegates the whole program to being a 'handy' tool...like that kitchen appliance you only pull out on occasion. While some DX users bring a good deal of scripting knowledge to the table, most of the average DX users (like myself) have to learn all of that from scratch. Thus the part of DX that requires the most skill is an uphill trek.

Finally, where is the love? Everyone loves to make their stuff look cool (WB), but not everyone just loves to know every bit of system info on their computer (DX). There are a whole lot of average users that love to do creative graphic design (indeed, you could start a business off of it), but there aren't that many average users who love to spend unnerving hours coding apps/utilities that they and, perchance, only a few other people in the world would find useful (how many successful businesses have been started by making the kind of mini-apps DX produces? That's not sarcasm, I'd really like to know how profitable this market is.).


The Process

I don't claim to know much about the process of WB so I'll look for the regular users of the product to fill me in after my attempt here. The WB process, as far as I can discern, is predominantly graphic design, and then to a lesser extent putting it all together in SKS. Thus, using WB/SKS is like riding a bike. The process is the same whether you're making a goth design, Easter design, minimalist design etc. Once you know how to put everything together, all that is left is for you to figure out your design and create it. (Not to be mistaken, it is by no means a cakewalk (you’d laugh at my so-called graphic skills) and WBers are a very dedicated bunch, but when you compare it to the DX process you'll see just how different the two are.)

On the DX side, no two projects can be accomplished with the same process. As mentioned before, there are myriads of different ideas DXers want to accomplish. Creating shortcuts require something different than system meters. Weather widgets are an entirely different beast than rss readers. Some require no scripting, others depend on it. Some projects require dozens of objects with different object types, parent/child relations, grouping, states, etc, and others might just have one or two objects with no hassle. I've had projects take a few minutes and projects that last months (and counting). I won't even go into the different skill levels of scripting required to do one project or the next.


The End Goal

The end goal of using WB/SKS is to make a complete WindowsBlind. Buttons, dropdowns, windows, progress bars, start menu, task bar, shutdown dialog etc, etc. There could literally be a checklist of everything you need to accomplish to make a complete WB.

The end goal of using DX is.....to finish whatever it is you started making with it. A checklist here will do you no good because no two projects are trying to accomplish the same thing. This is most evident when someone asks on the forums how to do a, b, or c with DX. Trying to get to the root of the problem and the discovery of an answer can be such a complicated and confusing matter, that most of time the person seeking answers is just referred to the DX User's Guide or the Wiki (and in some cases that doesn't even help).



Skinning v. Developing (Coding)

IMO, DesktopX is not skinning. As per the definition given in Brad's article, I don't see how DesktopX falls under that category. Sure you could re-skin a widget that's already out there but I doubt that is the main purpose of DX. More accurately, DX is a developmental program, while WB is the true skinning program. So, trying to address the shortcomings of DX and widget-making in the context of skinning might just miss the problem altogether. As outlined, WB (skinning) and DX (developing) are two very different markets. They do not have the same kind of supply or demand. While skinning has a broad appeal to both those who are making the products and those who are using them, developing (widget-making) is so much more niche. Perhaps, that is all widget-making will ever be; a niche hobby, with a very niche market.

I never did expect widgets to take off and sky rocket into the mainstream consumer market. You see them here or there on websites, doing this task or that, and I believe that's about the peak of their potential like that kitchen appliance you only pull out on occasion.

In order for DesktopX (and the whole widget-making, developing, coding arena) to enjoy the success and mainstream popularity of WB and the skinning arena:

- It has to draw upon something the user already likes to do. I dare say, it is unlikely that the average user out there already liked to make widgets and found true love when they stumbled upon DesktopX.

- It has to be easier to use; impossible as that seems given how easy DX already appears to be. Despite DX being one of the most well-documented applications here (a full User/Developer guide, and numerous tutorials covering an array of topics), people regularly show up wondering how to do a, b, or c. Apparently the vast majority of average users are finding it very difficult to achieve what they want to achieve.

- There need to be goals. The purpose of DX is unclear to most people. I know I mentioned the whole 'myriad of ideas' thing, but surely there are some common threads among those ideas that can be expounded upon grouped, tackled, explained, and tutorialized. That way the user can find and connect to information already out there that is similar to what they are trying to do, instead of a fragmented encyclopedia of things that DX can 'potentially' do....only if you know how to put it all together.

- DX needs to be more fun (or at least presented as such). Easy is fun, fun is appealing. There is not much that is fun about spending hours, days, weeks, learning a scripting language. It's hard work. There isn't much fun about spending hours, days, and weeks more trying to actually code a widget to make it do one little task.

- THE most difficult hurdle for DX to clear is usefulness. Several mini-apps taking up space on your desktop have a lot more to prove in usefulness than a WB that does nothing majorly functional but just looks so darn suave. If it aint useful, it's a waste of space, and a waste of time, and no one will want to use it, much less learn how to make one of their own.





I could go on but, good grief, this was a long post, and you're probably sick of reading my rantings already. Search me for the solutions to any of these ruminations, but I just had to toss my change into the pot.
ZubaZ
Reply #29 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 1:09 PM
Awesome reply sViz.        
RomanDA
Reply #30 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 1:24 PM
only a few other people in the world would find useful (how many successful businesses have been started by making the kind of mini-apps DX produces? That's not sarcasm, I'd really like to know how profitable this market is.).


The only people i know making any GOOD money off of Gadgets is SD itself. And they only include the standard Weather/Clock/Cal gadgets in their "MY COLORS" Skins.

That was/is an amazing post, and its so perfectly true. People see something like one of the last things i did the Quest System Info, and think, ok, so.. why do i want that. When i look at it i see.. about 2000 lines of WMI Code, pulling items of info from all over the system, things i never thought i could use DX to pull. But no one cares, its just something they will not use or isnt pretty enough.

I see a possible market for DX, and Im trying to find ways to hit this market, and who knows, i might be able to make a go at it, but who knows. The "potential" for DX is really endless, its amazing. For someone like me who truely LOVES to code things, its a dream come true, i can have an idea, and start playing with just a TEXT object, and keep going at it till i have something that works. But you are so right on the money with the comment.

On the demand side it's even more fuzzy. There are myriads of different demands for DX products. Just look at the Wish List thread and you'll see all kinds of ideas ranging from cool and practical to silly and improbable. If you look at what people are using the most (all time downloads) you'll see the same old utilities that simply match whatever WB the user is running. So, let's just say the demand, ie what people want out of a widget, is no exact science.


Trying to figure out what people will use, or what they "want" is so hard. You might get a lot of interest on 1 thing, but nothing like the people that will plunk down $9 for a WB skin they will use for 2 days, then move on to the next one. I have only had 2 really successful gadgets and they were monsters to code, and i would never want to attempt it again.

I think there could be a lot of "pre-canned" code created to help the average user learn DX and get into it more, but dont look to me, i have done so many tutorials, and when i look at them i see the same 3-4 people commenting on them, but overall no one cares. No one wants to learn how to program, they want to have pretty thing, and thats all they care about (for the most part).

Will see where 2008 takes us.
Vad_M
Reply #31 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 1:45 PM
Agree with Zu. Really nice post!

Back when I lurked the forums there were many new posts in the DX area every single day and now it is virtually dead.


If you'll try to analyse the amount of daily downloads in DX widgets/objects galleries and compare this data with the same amounts for the past two years you'll come to conclusion that these galleries are nearly dead too. People usually lose their interest to a places where there are no new ideas and where the progress is absent...

I can't understand why Stardock does nothing to correct this situation!
zakai1369
Reply #32 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 2:21 PM
I think there could be a lot of "pre-canned" code created to help the average user learn DX and get into it more, but dont look to me, i have done so many tutorials, and when i look at them i see the same 3-4 people commenting on them, but overall no one cares. No one wants to learn how to program, they want to have pretty thing, and thats all they care about (for the most part).


I think some more documented step by step explanations of how the codes work would be great. I know a couple months back I read all of RomanDA's tutorials for DX and was very interested. But being new to skinning I wanted to be able to practice more on the graphics end of things. Figuring that this way I'll have some experience with making "original looks" of my own. I would then love to go back to RomanDA's tutorials and any other documentation I can find on coding for DX and be able to take the time to learn how to do the coding, not just copy and take what I need.
Frogboy
Reply #33 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 3:18 PM

Regarding DesktopX:

I will be posting up a road map for DesktopX. It's not dead by any means. But it's going to be a rough road this year to bring it back to life more given the hurdles Vista has imposed.

Here's the most honest thing I can say about DesktopX:  It doesn't get as much attention as other programs because of profitability.  It just doesn't make enough money to justify the kind of resources necessary to keep it moving forward.  What is saving it is MyColors.  The media player plugin, for instance, is getting a substantial update so that it can support more features of Media Player and other media players. But that's only happening because MyColors customers demand it (and OEMs as well).

The intermediate future of DesktopX is going to be in plugins. We're going to make a lot of plugins to make it easier for people to simply make "skins" for them. Basically, we'll take care of the basic coding for weather, clocks, RSS feeders, etc. and let artists just be artists.

In the longer-term, we want to make it so that people can save what we call widget templates. That is, someone makes say a disk space widget template and other peopel can import that template and make a new skin for it.  So peopel would effectively be able to make their own skinnable apps using DesktopX.  

 

RomanDA
Reply #34 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 3:21 PM
In the longer-term, we want to make it so that people can save what we call widget templates. That is, someone makes say a disk space widget template and other peopel can import that template and make a new skin for it. So peopel would effectively be able to make their own skinnable apps using DesktopX.


This sounds like a great idea. And I will be looking forward to seeing what happens with the plugins, etc.
ZubaZ
Reply #35 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 3:23 PM
And I will be looking forward to seeing what happens with the plugins, etc.
"look forward to" . . I expect you to be writing some.  

Thanks for the update Brad
Frogboy
Reply #36 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 3:28 PM

Well, first off I would like to say this is a very well written article Brad, but there are some points that I might try to clear up here concerning Windows Vista MsStyles.As a skinner who skinds Windowblinds and also makes Vista MsStyles there is a couple of points that I dont exactly agree with. You say that and I quote " msstyles can be a pain as it involved cracking uxtheme.dll still but also a couple of other files -- which tend to get overwritten on occasion by Windows Update. "Now part of this quote I will agree with, the part that sometimes Windows updates will overwrite specific .dlls but there is a program called VistaGlazz that can be used. Now istaGlazz supports 32bit and 64bit- VistaGlazz is Vista language independent- VistaGlazz works on every Windows version that supports the Aero look (Ultimate, Business, Home Premium).With this simple application you can easily patch your Windows Vista system to use custom styles. Similar to the UxTheme patch for Windows XP. After that you can modify your Aero style to use the glass transparency effect on maximized windows. I do not dispute that Rafael does one heck of a job but as for myself I prefer VistaGlazz for the following reason, as simple as it is to patch your .dlls it just as simple to unpatch your .dlls and return it to its original state. And of course, VistaGlazz is free. But also if you dont mind spending a dollar you could use Tuneup Utililties which will apply any modified Vista Visual style without patching any .dlls. And my second point would be on transparency. You say that " The skinners don't really have control over transparency, shape, button placement, etc. So you ultimately end up with something that is similar to Aero. But most people like Aero and the price is right." Well for sure the price is right, but your statement on transparency is wrong. If you have Photoshop and know how to use it you have absolutely no problem with transparency. I have 5 or 6 completely transparent Vista Visual styles reason being more compatbile with backgrounds thats why I make them transparent and I have absolutely no problems making them as transparent as I want. Again Brad nice read....

Couple of things I want to bring up here:

1) VistaGlazz gets broken by every major Windows Vista update. Every SP1 beta, for instance, has broken it. By contrast, Rafael's stuff keeps working.

2) VistaGlazz does nothing to resolve the problem of creating Vista msstyles. Look at http://browse.deviantart.com/customization/skins/vistautil/visstyles/?order=9&startts=1204444800&endts=1204617600. They're all basically the same except for minor changes to bitmap resources.  Vista's msstyles format is not friendly for skinners.  Someone changing the close button to be black instead of red is not my idea of skinning.

Plus, VistaGlazz doesn't impress me with their dishonest claim that WindowBlinds "degrades" performance. That might have been true on Windows 98 or 2000 but since WindowBlinds 5, that's a bogus claim.

HAPTORK
Reply #37 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 3:31 PM
Agree with the views of Vad_M,RomanDA and SviZ.
I have seen that people are more interested in the conventional things with some new skins than something very creative. WC administrators needs to work on this. They should highlight and feature the new and creative things more and more otherwise a developer cant stay and work for themselves and friends for a long time(cause there are usually less views than deserved for the new and creative things).
RomanDA
Reply #38 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 4:13 PM
I have seen that people are more interested in the conventional things with some new skins than something very creative. WC administrators needs to work on this.


I agree and Disagree, Its not the mods that should be responsible for this as we have seen with the people loving all the weather widgets, they are only giving people what they want.

I think my original suggestions (about 2 years ago) of splitting DX Galleries into multiple sections could EASILY solve this. No one knows the diff between Objects and Widgets, but I think that if SD makes a truly skinable DX widget then we can remove the 20,000 weather "widgets" and have a Gallery of DX Skins. I think that would be so great. As then we could have DX Widgets that are really using DX and not just another re-hash of the same code. DX Gadgets which anyone can use without DX, and also where Masters would post their FOR SALE Gadgets. And this would go a long way to helping DX.

As for the plug-in idea, i could see where the best ones could be made "MASTER PLUGINS" so that the author could get something for the amount of work that would go into some of these.
But thats for another year im sure.
Astyanax
Reply #39 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 4:36 PM
I hope to see that new IP soon, I'm liking a lot of the features you guys are listing (mainly the recoloring of icons with a simple few clicks) I truely hope you mean what you said about x64 (the last bit anyway...  ) Also.. not all of us go to x64 because we have 4gb of memory or more (which yes... i do) - i also went due to a quad core processor I also agree with your opinion on .msstyles for Vista, after modding some for personal use i can safely say that its a hex edit nightmare.
LightStar
Reply #40 Tuesday, March 4, 2008 6:02 PM
Super article Brad! Very informative!

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