State of the WinCustomize Community
WinCustomize for the remaining year
Wednesday, August 20, 2008 by Island Dog | Discussion: OS Customization
I thought now would be as good as ever to write a "State of the Community" post. Over the past couple of weeks I have noticed a lot of negativity coming back to our forums, which have been a positive place for a while now. Negative and discouraging comments on skins have been increasing, and when a post was made to address it, it turns into another argument and battle. This really needs to stop and it will one way or another.
I do want to take a moment and give a big hats off to Zoomba. Just over two years ago he took over WinCustomize and associated Stardock sites, and since then we have seen many, many improvements. Not all are visible to everyone, but believe me a lot of work is done behind the scenes to make the experience at WinCustomize better. If you don't listen to the WinCustomize SkinCast (which I don't know why you wouldn't), you might have missed that Zoomba has moved on from WinCustomize. He's now doing some great work on Impulse, but thankfully he still has a part in WinCustomize, although not so much public now.
Community
The thing I have always had pride in at WinCustomize was the community. When I first started skinning people would jump at the opportunity to help, and not say that isn't happening now, but the tone has definitely changed over the years. Obviously, skinning has changed over the years as well. Commercial skinning now has a definite market and some don't seem to take too kindly to that. Regardless of how skinning has evolved it shouldn't have an impact on how the community treats each other or behaves.
The insulting comments and bullying of other members will not be tolerated at all, regardless of their rank or status on the site. We want WinCustomize to be a place where anyone can come and upload their skins and be part of this community, without having to be subject to ridiculous comments that only drive people away. For newer skinners out there, you will get criticism on your works, but don't take it personally. Listening to experienced skinners will only help you get better. On that note, giving constructive criticism is fine, but blatant attacks and insults do not help, and will be dealt with.
Here at WinCustomize we have a class system:
- Citizen
- Apprentice
- Master Apprentice
- Journeyman
- Master
- Wizop/Moderators
You can view specifics of each class here. Basically, you start out at citizen and if you contribute skins and to the community, you will be promoted through each of the classes. Promotion is done by recommendation and votes from the site moderators (wizops) and admins on a monthly basis. The Journeyman level allows users to bypass moderation, so your skins go directly to the gallery. The highest class most can achieve is Master, but this is not an easy road. One of the advantages of becoming a Master skinner is the ability to sell your skins on WinCustomize. There are just a handful of them currently, and we are always keeping our eye out for the next one.
This is a system that has been around for a long time, but lately I have been pondering if changes are needed, especially when it comes to the Master class. One of the descriptions of Master is, "not only must the user be a significant contributor to the community, but instrumental to the day to day life of WinCustomize." We have Master skinners that contribute quite a bit to the galleries, both free and paid skins, but are not necessarily active in say the forums for instance. Not everyone is into the forum scene, so how much leeway should be given for that? Should it matter? Those are all questions I have been asking myself lately, and one of my projects is to re-write the member descriptions and define member classes going forward.
Ideally, I would love to see all Master skinners take a more active and positive role in the community, be true leaders to help guide the next-generation of skinners. They are the "best of the best" in terms of what they do, but maybe just contributing skins isn't enough. Is more community involvement needed? I would definitely love your feedback on this. I will also be looking for skin moderators soon, so anybody in the community that has been established for a while can feel free to contact me.
Skinning
This summer has been fantastic. Usually during this time of year skin submissions drop to almost nothing, but not this summer. I haven't looked at the numbers but I think submissions have actually increased. I am also seeing a lot of new skinners make their way over here, which is even more exciting. Skinners who have been missing for a while have also made some returns, so I am very excited on the skinning front. Not to mention the GUI Champs 2008 is due to start very soon, I think the next half of this year is going to be great.
Halloween and the Christmas season are also approaching, and I would really like to get some good sets of skins going, possibly even another community based skin. I also have a mockup skin that will be the basis of a community project, but not until the GUI Champs is done. You all have enough on your hands as is.
Although I can't mention specifics, we have also been tossing around ideas for the next version of WinCustomize. Although nothing is set or guaranteed, I'm really hoping to have a bigger focus on personal pages and sorting of galleries. I will leave it at that for now.
Now lets address some issues people have been bringing up lately, and attempt to squash problems going forward. Gallery moderation has been going pretty smoothly. Most skins are moderated in good time, and we have been working to make sure a clear set of guidelines are followed. To make things easier for everyone, I wrote the Tips for Moderation guide which everyone who submits skins should look over.
Let me now emphasize some things to end some discussions and problems:
- Resetting skin dates on updates will only be moderated if the skin has a significant change. Fixing a start menu issue, or altering the color slightly does not constitute that. Trying to game the system to stay on the front page of downloads will no longer pass.
- Vista clones are permitted within reason. Some of the most popular skins across the net are modifications of Vista. The advantage we have with WindowBlinds is that the skins can be much, much better than the default Aero look. Now we all have personal opinions on Vista looking skins, and the origins of images, but it's things we have gone through and determined it's not a simple matter to determine who created what.
- Multiple colors of the same skin must be included in a pack, or sub-styles. SkinStudio has a remarkable re-coloring feature which makes making separate colored sub-styles very easy so this is what I would recommend.
Conclusion
Overall, I have been very happy with the state of WinCustomize this year. Although there are some minor bumps in the road lately, those are ending today and I expect a great time for the rest of this year. Your comments and feedback are welcomed.
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Reply #22 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:14 PM
Why should someone get promoted here when they aren't even active here? If there's someone active on dA who uploads a bunch of stuff there, but nothing here, how are they doing WC any good? How are they benefiting this community?
Reply #23 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:14 PM
So please keep on guiding whenever possible,where ever possible
Reply #24 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:20 PM
Bebi you should be asking that question of Jafo, not Pictoratus...
Reply #25 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:25 PM
I do not want to bring up the bumps in the road from the recent past. They should be left there and the community is ready to move on with what lies a head. Which Island Dog has stated is to be good. That is what it will be...
I'm a bit concerned about the change in the Masters who do not participate much in the forums. A lot of them work directly with Stardock now on and off. I feel these people have less time to actually get into what is going on with the forums completely. Thus they are exempt from this ruling I would hope.
Also that of those Masters who do put there participation into the forums with help for new skinners and/or such whoever for thus whatever the cause. Should receive some sort of recognition for their efforts and achievements like wise.
I just feel that this can be hard for some who are really busy with artwork. Thus having such little time to visit with other members. That or they have been less involved due to the way the forums are going. To say that they do not care to get involved unless it concerns something they are part of and so forth. That is a big loop to looking into and such. I would not want to ask or hear what that answer was from some as such for this question. The definition could be as hard to define also.
My hopes are that the community will realize the mods/admins are doing their best to keep things good and pleasing here at the site for everyone. That and we need to work closer with our mods/admins and respect the rules set out for the site. To keep the site in a good working community for less problems and better achievement of what is the proper way to handle problems. With of course that of things that will be made for bettering the site in a whole manner.
I believe we have our own ideas - each of us does - for how and what we want this community to be. Island Dog is asking this here and we need to give a proper answer and not the answer of no I do not care - do what you want with such and such.
Here is another thing too. If you have a problem and do not trust the PM thing here then you have to try another way. Such as a direct contact with said admin/mod... there are other ways to contact people here. Email is one and another is via personal web contact.
If you really need to talk with these people over something needed you can try this.
I will be here to help anyone who needs whatever and wants to contact a mod or admin. I'll do my best to get you hooked up privately.
All in all the community is as Island Dog has said. We are all getting a better way of seeing things and trying to work together. We can do it and it will make everyone better.
Thanks Island Dog for this thread - it is well needed and I hope for all the best here in the future.
Reply #26 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:43 PM
GRREAT! when can we start with the brain storms?
Reply #27 Thursday, August 21, 2008 3:52 AM
Reply #28 Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:07 AM
I myself am always willing to answer questions of help anyone interested in creating docks. Hell....I'll even tutor over the phone if needed.
Reply #29 Thursday, August 21, 2008 5:07 AM
Difference is partly, one is a private entity and the other is corporate. Porting Os's has always been common place, as typically it is looked upon as fostering interest/advertising. On a rare occasion the Owner of the OS has requested specific skins to be removed for various reasons. It was figured a long time ago that if the owner of the os left a skin alone then it was silently accepted. If they wanted they have the resources to hunt each one down and ask it's removal, where as a single skinner does not. A single skinner is much more likely to make sure his rights are not infringed. So they typically do not allow "silent" porting.
As for the community. Together we stand divided we fall. Id really hate to see WC go the way of custo.org.
Play nice folks..
Reply #30 Thursday, August 21, 2008 5:44 AM
I do not sell skins but if I did, I would certainly take in the revenue via an LLC at the least for a whole variety of reasons. Unless, by corporate you mean publicly traded and I see no difference there. A company might decide that the stopping of a skin causes more bad PR than it is worth, but that is another matter entirely as it is merely a temporary decision until they decide otherwise. They always maintain the right. Having said that, I would agree that it would get harder and harder to enforce based on "past practices".
This seems contradictory to me. If the single skinner does not have the resources, than how would he/she be more likely to make sure his rights are not infringed?
Agreed 100%
I always do.
Reply #31 Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:30 AM
Absolutely not. This article was not intended to be negative, just the opposite really. The community overall is fantastic, the amount of skinning has increased, so it's good stuff all around. Just a few minor issues to snub before they turn into major ones. Otherwise, I predict the rest of this year will be just as great.
Reply #32 Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:04 AM
The 'history' of skinning the Windows OS [that which essentially concerns us most, hence the site name, etc] has always been about altering the OS GUI [Graphic User Interface] [or 'shell'], and/or its parts.
Now, by definition, if the OS is NOT skinned it'll look just like.....the OS [strange, that].
But...
If one were to skin it one of the very first thoughts/directions would be...."hey...what if we make this shitty Win95 look like a Mac and scare the neighbours"...and thus OS 'porting' was very early on the agenda.
I remember people hunting through the obscure, 'back-yard' OS's and shells looking for something that'd be "really neat to make Windows look like". Remember BeOS? There came a time where there were likely MORE BeOS imitations that were actually a Windows environment than there were actual BeOS users.
It has always been accepted practise to allow such OS copying/porting and, as far as I can recall there has only been two formal objections from the IP owners - both adhered-to.
Now, if skinner A were to make a variation of BeOS to 'skin' Windowblinds that's fine and dandy. If skinner B then did the same no-one can have issue with it....if both were independent. However....if skinner B simply took the already adapted images that skinner A made and used them as his own...THEN we get the beginnings of what's called a 'rip' issue.
Coincidental ports are unfortunate in as much as they give the impression that someone copied/plagiarised/ripped when infact there is a legitimate argument they are simply both ports of the same origin and thus alike.
Life is much simpler [for the moderator] when something 'unique' is created...that bears NO RESEMBLANCE with anything prior.....and a second party submits something with the same images that 'should' be unique to the first.
Then there's reasonable grounds to act.
This is NOT a 'double standard'. A double standard implies different rules being applied to the same situation. This is infact different rules applying to different situations - something entirely logical and understandable....
Reply #33 Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:15 AM
, though).In my profession, we achieve success by standing on the shoulders of those who came before us. To try to do it any other way is mostly foolish (I say mostly because sometimes serendipity occurs and valuable finds can be made by 'reinventing' the wheel).
Artists, though, are different in that they always start at some idea or object found in "reality" and alter it somehow. Thus, their work is the "lie that emulates reality". It doesn't matter if the reality is a picture, or color or emotion. Using that logic, no work is "original". When broken down to components, something was pre-existant.
However, the act of "breaking it down" causes one to miss the beauty of the intact object. Things of beauty are more than the sum of their parts. Usually the better the parts, the better the whole but oddly, imperfections can make the work more beautiful (i.e. the Parthenon).
Thus, the "Original" argument breaks down at some level, but paradoxically we reject this. Why? Because we are creatures with an ego. All of us. That's why courtesy and civility were invented: So we could live in peace with each other.
When one gets the urge to "flame", it's usually because he/she feels insulted. Pause a moment at that point (even though it's very hard to do that) and examine why you feel insulted. Invariably it's because you have "accepted" or fear others accept this insult as being true. Wouldn't it be wiser and less violent to disengage at this point? Yes, it would. When we don't succeed is when our egos (spelling?) trigger our tempers.
There's no easy cure for this. I've been working on mine for years. Ironically, it's been Zubaz's way of handling "difficult moments" that has given me an insight: Humor through self effacement or self ridicule is the highest form of humor.
Thanks for the thread ID and thanks, Zubaz for your gentle humor.
Reply #34 Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:36 AM
If porting in this manner, cloning, or whatever we are calling it, is not improper use of others images why were the request for removal adhered to?
Got it! Thanks!
If I insert Aero in place of unique (as it certainly was new)......????
I am certainly not trying knit pick this issue to death and I will work on trying to understand the finesse in this concluding statement. Thank you.
Reply #35 Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:58 AM
Good point Bebi. That was part of the clarification I was seeking (which Jafo aptly provided) when I asked this earlier:
... unless of course there is an implied assumption that Wincustomize is the community.
As Jafo pointed out, WC is not the community. It is a part of the community at large and will recognize contributors to that community regardless of their 'home'.
Reply #36 Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:06 AM
I think HG_E commented about that above....but it's about the nature of our beast. We skin 'for' [mostly] the MS OS so more often than not MS accepts what is done as an extension of its own product, and as much of it revolves around stand-alone software such as Windowblinds it 'does no harm' [where-as the argument is a little different with the patching of MS dll's and the subsequent potential breaking of the OS integrity].
Example of how a skinner extends a proggy functionality/application.....you extract an ico file [or similar] from your Photoshop install...and adapt it to become an OD Icon. Now people with OD can use this icon to launch their Photoshop. It's a win-win situation for all.
Now...Adobe owns that image used...so if they were to say "we do NOT want you to use our program launch icon in your Dock to launch our software" we'd be obliged to remove it....but think about it....it's still 'their icon' launching 'their product' so it's sensible that they would/do allow its use. All the skinner has done is to save Adobe from creating launch icons/images/whatever for every potential GUI application....
Talk about wobbling way off topic here....but one way or another it's sort of followed on....
Reply #37 Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:11 AM
Probably important to point out that it's always been the case that the 'higher' up the ladder you go the more focus/commitment is needed to be placed with Wincustomize...eg. Masters really 'need' to consider Wincusto their home-base. [certainly if you're an admin you bloody-well better... ]
Reply #38 Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:14 AM
How chivalrous... sounds like one very convenient excuse to rip. I seriously pity anyone who uses this as justifiation to pick and choose who's work their going to steal.
Look my whole point is I guess I'm hoping sincerely to maintain higher standards for the community, seems ironic to me that the community tolerates it to the point that I feel like I'm being the bad guy for trying.
Reply #39 Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:20 AM
Reply #40 Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:26 AM
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Reply #21 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:43 PM