Is Skinning ALL Stardock Is About?
Or could it be they cater to wider interests?
Monday, August 15, 2005 by Zoomba | Discussion: Virtual Communities
Over time I started to explore the other sites and products from Stardock. I gave Object Desktop another spin and found it vastly improved since I had last visited the product set, and I found that there were other games for me to play. But to play them I needed a Dregnin subscription, so I got a discounted subscription since I was a GalCiv owner and got access to the rest of the Stardock games. While I was diving deep into the other products offered by Stardock, I stumbled on this site called JoeUser, yet another web log site. The difference here was the community focus and the style of articles written. It wasn't like LiveJournal where people whined and complained because their 8th grade boyfriend/girlfriend hadn't called in the past 2 hours and they missed them so much and how their parents just didn't understand how you two are deeply and truely in love and want to get married and have kids and you'll always be together and and and *gasps for air* Here on JU, it was (mostly) adult conversation. People wrote interesting things and debate/discussion often resulted.
From there I started fiddling with Stardock Central a bit more and noticed the IRC client, so I started popping into #Stardock and #GalCiv and would occassionally jump in on some conversation here or there. in #Stardock, mostly the topics revolved around skinning and the ObjectDesktop suite of tools. Sometimes it would wander and just be about silly fluff, but it usually came back to skinning. #GalCiv was pretty dead since a fair bit of time had passed since release of the game and interest had started to drop off. I frequented the channels off and on for about a year. It wasn't until GalCiv 2 was announced and then we started the JoeUser chat room that I became a more permenant fixture on the IRC server.
Why do I write all of this? Why do I recount my path of discovery as it relates to Stardock and its products and services? Well, because for some reason there are a lot of people out there who seem to think that ALL Stardock does is Windows Customization software and services. While I admit it's the lionshare of their business, it is not all they do. I have been chastised in #Stardock for having the audacity to start a conversation on anything that didn't directly relate to skinning. I've gotten put down for talking about GAMES and TECHNOLOGY before because it strayed too far from the sacred topic. People at WC lament regularly that content that may be relevant but originated outside of the sacred WC forums shouldn't be cross-posted as it is now, as if us unwashed masses are going to dirty the pure clean waters of their holy home. I just want to remind everyone that the skinner is not the only type of community member, it's not the only interest catered to by Brad & Co. Here's a quick list of some of the OTHER things Stardock does, for those of you who seem to have forgotten/been unaware of:
1. Game Development Company
Stardock has developed and released several top-notch games ranging from Lightweight Ninja, a Sonic The Hedgehog like sidescroller, to Galacitc Civilizations a turn based space strategy game to The Political Machine, a presidential campaign simulator. Up on the horizon they have Galactic Civilizations 2, a reinvention of the series in a damn good looking 3D engine as well as Society: The Game, a Real Time Strategy Massively Multiplayer Online Game. There are a lot of people out there who buy and play Stardock Games. With the addition of TotalGaming.Net, a new online game distribution channel, gaming is becoming a big pull to Stardock.
2. Online Communities
WinCustomize is probably the site everyone is the most familiar with since Win Customization is their biggest business right now, but they also have JoeUser, a great blog community that they just haven't started charging for yet. All of their sites attempt to foster community centered on the site topic, and they also attempt to share content across them when posted in relevant channels.
3. Office Productivity
Enter ThinkDesk, the latest tool offerings from Stardock. Right now there's only Multiplicity, which allows multiple computers to be managed from one keyboard and one mouse, but they've got other nifty goodies lined up to go. These programs are catering to a COMPLETELY different crowd than their previous offerings.
4. Unrelated but cool ventures...
Poweruser.TV comes to mind as a pretty cool and really different direction for Stardock to be going in. Here they're addressing all sorts of different topics that span everything they do and more. Games, customization, new technology etc. This is going to bring to the larger community, Power Users who might not have taken notice of Stardock in the past.
Now, gamers may explore and discover that they can also change the appearance and behavior of their computers, or skinners may find a new game they adore, or maybe people from either camp would find some insanely useful ThinkDesk tool that simplifies their real life work. Then maybe they would start posting thought-provoking aritcles on topics that interest them. It's a massive cross-pollination of thoughts and opinions, and it exposes us all here to something new that we might not have considered before. I know I dabble a lot more with ODNT, and plan on buying Multiplicity the second there's a Mac version and will probably poke around with the other tools when they become available. Stardock sucked me in with a single game, but now they have a customer that has bought a wide range of their products from all categories.
I just want you, the elitists amonst the WinCustomize community, to remember all of this next time you turn your nose up at anything that isn't connected to skinning. Remember that there are people out there in the Stardock network that didn't come here to tweak DesktopX, that didn't come here to get the latest ObjectBar skin and aren't interested/capable of making our own themes or whatnot. Remember that we, just like you, are customers of Stardock, we put in the cash just like you and we contribute in our own ways and in our own areas just like you do. We are no better and no worse than you are, so please cut the sneering, jeering and condescending tone you take with us. Stop acting all self-righteous when one of us writes a RELEVANT article in the areas of technology or the Internet and it gets crossposted to your sacred site. We get your stuff too all the time but you don't see us popping in on your threads saying "I don't think this belongs here on JU/GalCiv/Whatever site).
We're all part of a larger community, I hope you can learn to become better neighbors."
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Reply #22 Monday, August 15, 2005 7:57 PM
| Cordelia: I'm STILL at the Eiffel Tower..!!!! |
Mon Dieu! J'avais attendu à la Louvre!
Reply #24 Monday, August 15, 2005 8:12 PM
| It's my understanding that you on Joeuser have the "option" to have your topic crossposted while we do not have the same option. |
No, actually we don't. Certain topics cross-post automatically, and some on both the JU and the WC side don't realize it. So imagine our surprise when we are told that a post doesn't belong! Especially when it is a post about, say, my computer and it's posted in the "personal computing" section.
Sections that cross over are OS Customization, Personal Computing and (I think) Tutorials. There could be others that I'm not aware of. So by the same token this means any articles posted on the WC side in OS Customization also show up on JU.
This cross-posting actually enhances the community - assuming that everyone realizes that the person they are talking to may not be their close neighbor, but someone from down the street.
Howdy neighbors! Block party, anyone?
Reply #25 Monday, August 15, 2005 8:31 PM
| No, actually we don't. Certain topics cross-post automatically, and some on both the JU and the WC side don't realize it. |
Sorry, it was my understanding from a thread back at the start of JU that you had a box you could check to have it show in both.
| This cross-posting actually enhances the community |
I agree, I'd just like to be able to know at a glance where a post originated to avoid confusion/contention.
Oh...in the WC forum, I believe it's just the Internet & OS Customization sections that crosspost. The tutorials fall under the Article section which at least visibly is on a different page, but ALSO contains the Internet & OS Customization sections. Confusing eh?
Reply #26 Monday, August 15, 2005 9:06 PM
I think it would reduce confusion [at least]...and certainly help with understanding 'where people are coming from' if the 'average user' could ACTUALLY SEE where a post was 'coming from'.
This WC/JU crossover is good....perfectly good...in theory.....however it's in its execution that it misses a little.
A tiny icon placed on each thread and comment defining the source of the input... would remove any confusion or contention.
'Distinguishing' is NOT 'discrimination', but 'clarification'.
The motivation behind many Blog entries has no specific relevance to the internal WC forums.....only the content may perhaps be of interest to WC-centric skinners, etc.
I think Emily's thread is a bit of a 'case in point'. Of the 160-odd comments there, sweet bugger-all of them actually pertained to the blog comment....the rest were a piss and moan about one word choice....and a chance for the 'predictables' to take cheap shots at all and sundry.
None of that 'should' have happened...and maybe, just maybe...if the thread source was seen to be a JU blog entry the response might have been different.
As it turned out it was immaturity on the part of some commenters from WC that ran it off the rails so effectively....
Reply #27 Monday, August 15, 2005 9:25 PM
| This WC/JU crossover is good....perfectly good...in theory.....however it's in its execution that it misses a little. A tiny icon placed on each thread and comment defining the source of the input... would remove any confusion or contention. |
Reply #28 Monday, August 15, 2005 9:32 PM
But my 2cents for the staff is: you've married two completely different communities together but expect things to remain all-ages. A restriction or permission to access might be togglable in someone's user preferences, and at the very least - as jafo said - more clarification on where a post is coming from.
Reply #29 Monday, August 15, 2005 10:25 PM
We have a lot more to gain by dealing with each other than we do by burying our heads in the sand of our respective sites.
Reply #30 Monday, August 15, 2005 10:47 PM
| While an icon showing it's a JU or WC post would be nice, that is NOT the point. The point was that we're all here, we're all lumped together whether we like it or not and we should try and make the best of it. |
Ah...but that IS the point....the interaction CAN be improved. It is not really necessary just to 'make the best of it', but to actively encourage its development.
Here's a thought.....some people here on Wincustomize's Forums may actually be oblivious to the existence of JU....and a simple 'icon of source' might just prick their curiosity...and subsequently enhance and propagate both communities [if one agrees they are two].
It's well and good to expound the virtues of Stardock's versatility but it need not be a static thing, resistant to change/enhancement.
All that's needed is cogent, lucid 'argument' to affect change....cos one thing is definite....Stardock's management does not suffer from the degenerative myopia that currently afflicts Deviantart's 'leadership'....
Reply #31 Monday, August 15, 2005 10:51 PM
| We have a lot more to gain by dealing with each other than we do by burying our heads in the sand of our respective sites. |
I agree with that.
But I'd still like an icon or something. For me, an icon or whatnot is not segregation as much as point of reference. Most of my forum viewing is at WC - it is a skinning site. Delving into the subject branches I've come to expect skinning posts, weird internet sites, posts on pc performance, issues with programs, new toys for pcs, etc. When out of the blue there's an article discussing maximizing your ad revenue that is basically spam with repeated links over and over - it throws me.
Reply #32 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:20 AM
| Ah...but that IS the point |
That was your point, but it wasn't Zoomba's. You make a good suggestion about the icon distinguishing between the sites, but until something like that is implemented I think we'd all appreciate a little more tolerance from those "elitists" on the site. Do you suggest that without such an icon, comments like "What is this doing here" are warranted? I doubt that you do, and I don't either but comments like that support Zoomba's use of the word "elitist". You point out that some here are oblivious to the existence of JU, but the reverse is also true, so it's pretty darned insulting when such comments show up on someone's personal blog.
Reply #33 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:49 AM
| You don't see people on JoeUser or Galciv2.com saying how we think those dirty WCers don't belong on our site. |
Thats because people pay for subscriptions to Wincustomize. They don't pay for joe user.com. They join WC because they are into customizing their computers. Joe user.com is a blogging site that caters to everyone regardless of whether they customize their pc or not. I can understand why some people are against the crossposting between the sites. They didn't pay for that. They didn't pay to see the world pissing and moaning about stuff that doesn't pertain to skinning. It changes the whole atmosphere of the forums at WC. WC subscribers didn't sign up for Joe user.com. If joe user.com was religious based, I would have been screaming bloody murder. Personally I like the sites being linked together, it's when posts are left out because they were from another site that bothers me.
Reply #34 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:50 AM
Tolerance works both ways. How about someone catering for the near 3,000,000 members here and what they want instead of a couple of people who cross-post? Guess the views of a skinner have no value compared to the views of a blogger 
Reply #35 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:04 AM
| Thats because people pay for subscriptions to Wincustomize |
As to imply the rest of us, because we don't have a website subscription are less entitled to things than those who have a WC sub? Sorry, but that one doesn't hold. I am a paying customer of Stardock. I own GalCiv 1, I have a TGN Subscription, I have an ODNT subscription. I'd pay for JU in a second if it were offered.
Also, a lot of the people on WC don't subscribe either. Having a subscription does not make the site some holy fortress of solitude. If you want to argue it, I'd say you're paying $20/yr for the skins, for the hosting space etc, and the forums are an added bonus. There's nothing in the subscription process or the Terms of Service that guarantee no one aside from skinners will enter the site. And even if a topic is wrongly posted to WC, it's the job of the admins and mods to correct the process, NOT the users... Subscribing does not give you the right to dictate terms to anyone.
I've seen DesktopX and WindowBlinds stuff pop up on TGN and JoeUser. I don't think I've ever seen anyone from either of those crowds jump in and say "I don't think this sort of thing should be posted here" You say people don't want to read the piss and moan blogs? There is NOTHING forcing them to! Ever heard the joke "Doctor, it hurts when I do this.... Well then don't do it!"
A lot of us here are customers of Stardock one way or another, but the attitude shown by the snooty elements amongst the larger WC group towards the rest of the customer base is pretty darn one-sided. The rest of us are cool with seeing a windows customization article threading its way onto the TGN site, or JoeUser (hell, they get FEATURED on JU a fair bit). We understand that there are people out there in Stardock land with different interests and focuses than us.
I am not much into the customization stuff myself, so you know what I do? I don't read it! I would suggest this same method to those who get their undies in a bunch when something from JU defiles the pristine pureness of the WC forums.
Reply #36 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:08 AM
| Tolerance works both ways. How about someone catering for the near 3,000,000 members here and what they want instead of a couple of people who cross-post? Guess the views of a skinner have no value compared to the views of a blogger |
Thank you for proving my point beautifully Fuzzy.
Reply #37 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:41 AM
The point is the skinning articles which may get cross-posted are harmless and could never be considered offensive. A lot of the blogs which get cross-posted here are ill mannered dummy spits which do offend. You see the difference? It's not because they are from JU... It's only JU elitism which assumes that is the case. Other articles from JU which are good tempered are well received, regardless of the subject - guess you are ignoring those.
This messageboard has survived a number of traumas, it doesn't need folks creating another all out war.
Reply #38 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:49 AM
| As to imply the rest of us, because we don't have a website subscription are less entitled to things than those who have a WC sub? Sorry, but that one doesn't hold. |
That is not what I said at all. Don't alter my words for your own agenda. If subscribers don't want crossposting from Joe User they have every right to complain to WC, not Joe User bloggers. It is not what they bought into.
Reply #39 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:00 AM
Reply #40 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:18 AM
| If subscribers don't want crossposting from Joe User they have every right to complain to WC, not Joe User bloggers. |
I don't think that's what NT said.
The way I read it, the answer to your question would be no. But you do have the right jump on and yell at TGN.
No trying to speak for NT, just bored.
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Reply #21 Monday, August 15, 2005 7:19 PM
I believe this is a good example of where the problems tend to crop up. Because I know this section is linked to Joeuser, I tend to avoid commenting on many of the topics. Not because I'm elitist but because I've seen to many instances where a topic got off track due to the assumption the person commenting that it was posted from Wincustomize or from Joeuser. There's no way for us on the WC side to know if the topic is crossposted or not. It's my understanding that you on Joeuser have the "option" to have your topic crossposted while we do not have the same option. I do not disagree about the larger community aspect. It does help to know from what forum a post originates if the topic seems to be at odds with the basic "theme" of either forum.