Windows Vista: A pre-beta 2 status report

The good, the bad, and the ugly

Thursday, May 18, 2006 by Frogboy | Discussion: Windows Vista

A Vista of the Leopard

Let me start this article by saying that I think Windows Vista is the most important version of Microsoft Windows since 1995.  If Windows 95 had been a disaster for Microsoft, we might all be running some flavor of IBM's OS/2 today.  Most people take for granted that if you run a PC, you run Microsoft Windows.  But as Windows XP nears its 5th birthday, such assumptions start to be called into question.

Apple's "BootCamp" enables users of Intel-based Macs to boot between Windows XP (or Vista) and MacOS X.  Look carefully at Apple's ads and you will find that they are promoting the hardware quality even more so than the OS.  Who they are targeting is clear -- performance minded PC users who might buy that PowerBook to put Windows XP on. Some percentage of those Windows users are likely to end up as Mac users.

The next version of MacOS X "Leopard" is scheduled to essentially come out at the same time as Windows Vista (roughly beginning of next year for general availability).  Two brand new operating systems (as far as the public is concerned) running on the same kind of hardware. It will be impossible to ignore the comparisons.

However, where Leopard will be the 5th revision of a very modern OS architecture, Windows Vista will be a brand new OS designed to look like previous versions of Windows.  Windows Vista is a major change from Windows XP.  It is not as much of a departure as MacOS X was from OS9, but it is a much bigger change than Windows XP was from say Windows 2000.

This means the level of polish in Windows Vista is going to be crucial.  The slogan for Windows Vista is "Clear, Confident, Connected".  And I must say, Windows Vista has the pieces to make that slogan true.  The question is whether Microsoft can deliver those pieces with the polish, integrity, and reliability that users expect.

When users start to get their hands on Windows Vista Beta 2, they need to remind themselves of these 3 facts:

  1. Most users of "Whistler" (the beta of Windows XP) beta 2 (May 2001) were able to use it full-time as their main OS.
  2. Windows Vista's RTM is probably around the end of October with a general availability in January 2007 for mortals.
  3. A 32-bit PC can address up to 4 gigabytes of memory per process (really 2 gigabytes in practice).

Yes, Microsoft does "get it"

Sometime in 2003 someone with power at Microsoft got fed up with Microsoft getting tagged as making "mediocre" operating systems.  They got sick of Mac zealots and Linux advocates chanting about the ancient architecture and outdated design of Windows.  And they decided that the next version of Windows would truly be state of the art.

Microsoft lists a bunch of features to highlight for Windows Vista.  As far as I'm concerned, there are 4 features of Windows Vista that have the potential to change the world.

  1. The Desktop Window Manager (DWM).  Outside techies, you won't hear about this.  But your entire Windows Vista experience runs in 3D now.  Oh, it looks 2D. Your apps and the desktop itself looks similar to Windows XP right? But it's all a 3D surface. It would be like loading up a PC game where the GUI is made to look like Windows XP but you know you're inside a game. 

    The reason that's a big deal is because it means all those great features on your video cards can finally be used seamlessly as part of your desktop applications.  In Windows XP, users are usually quite conscious when they're switching to a full screen DirectX application.  Now, the desktop IS a full screen DirectX application. You're always in DirectX now essentially (via Milcore).  I can't even begin to tell you all the goodies Stardock has been cooking up that make use of that. For users, it means a radically improved user experience.
     
  2. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF). Microsoft will be touting the security of Windows Vista a lot. But a lot of the security going forward will be the result of Microsoft's totally new networking foundation. The network code in Windows XP is, essentially a heavily patched version of what's been in Windows since around the Windows for Workgroup days. 

    Remember the early 90s? Nice times? Kumbaya? Before we all realized that there were jerks on the Internet with nothing better to do than to write malicious viruses, malware, DDOS clients, adware, etc?  Microsoft has worked hard on Windows XP to keep patching things.  But Windows Vista represents a new direction, a networking infrastructure built from scratch with today's security issues in mind.
     
  3. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF). This was called Avalon.  This goes a bit with item #1. But the reason why WPF is important is that it allows software developers to write new programs that make use of the fact that the Windows environment is now essentially a full-screen 3D DirectX application.  Microsoft has a bunch of tools and a whole development infrastructure that had to be built in parallel in order to pull this off.  XAML and other terms will become increasingly mainstream over the next few years as we see developers creating radically better looking, more friendly software.
     
  4. Live Anywhere.  Jason Cross has a great article about Live Anywhere. Essentially, one can picture a world in which Microsoft's "points" become the digital currency of choice.  In 5 years, if Microsoft pulls it off (and I think they have a good chance of doing it) people will be able to buy games, software, music, movies, etc. with Microsoft points via Live Anywhere. 

    Before anyone gets "big brotherish" about this, there are some real benefits to this -- as Live on the Xbox has proven, it opens the door to independent content providers to be able to make money on the Internet. It dramatically lowers the barrier to entry.  Right now on the PC there are 3 PC game digital retailers of note (4 if you count Gametap).  Direct2Drive, Steam, and TotalGaming.net. Live Anywhere could end up replacing or complementing these services. But games would be just the beginning. Combined with things like Urge and the upcoming demand for HD video content and you have consumer demand for what Live Anywhere could do.

All of this has been put together into an OS that has a much cleaner, better organized,  more polished interface and environment.

Those 4 features have far-reaching consequences if Microsoft pulls them off well.  Each one really deserves a long article on their own to explain their potential.  Any single one of these features would have been justification for a "new" version of Windows.

And yet, Microsoft is not just putting these 4 major things together into Vista (either bundled or as part of its overall move forward), it's including dozens of minor (and not so minor) features in there as well as well as having to put together a support structure for developers and users and hardware vendors to make use of this stuff.  And on top of that they're trying to release this with 6 different SCUs that amount to "Windows Vista crap" and "Windows Vista Ultimate" and 4 versions in between.

A Vista of the precipice

So Microsoft gets it. But great ideas and great designs really hinge on execution.  And that brings us to where we are right now in May 2006.

Right now, Windows Vista has a few serious problems.  Perhaps my concerns are overstated and this article will be merely a foot note of "doom and gloomers" who were wrong.  I hope so. I want Windows Vista to succeed. So let me put forth my concerns and you be the judge of whether I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Disclaimer: This is based on my experiences with beta 5381.  I was recently invited by Microsoft to a briefing of what's new in Windows Vista which is one of the reasons why I'm so excited about the concept of Windows Vista.  I also made sure to specifically ask on the first day if we could now publicly talk about this beta build and show screenshots since previously we were not supposed to put up screenshots.

Problem #1: Memory is cheap but we're at the end of the 32-bit line..

For the last several years, I and other people's response when a new OS or application used a lot of memory was to respond "memory is cheap, just add some more..."  Well, the good news is that thanks to Physical Address Extensions on most modern CPUs, your PC can theoretically handle up to 64 gigabytes of memory.

The bad news is that most motherboards stop at 4 gigabytes and each process can only use up to 2 gigabytes of memory (3 with tweaking) unless they use AWE (Address Windowing Extensions) which is not something most developers want to get into. 

So why should you care? Because Windows Vista uses a lot more memory than previous versions of Windows right now. 720 Megabytes are used on a fresh boot (on my test box) vs. around 250 Megabytes on Windows XP.  And that's before third parties get their hands on it and put on their stuff. 

To be fair, I could probably get this down to 500 megabytes with some power user trimming (just as power users can get XP down to under 100 megabytes).  But you're talking about a lot of memory. For most people, tossing on 8 gigabytes of memory onto their machine isn't an option.  Going to 64-bit is the next step but that may prove harder than most people think because many applications require 64-bit specific versions.

The point of this is that this all seems to point that these cool new features have a significant memory overhead in order to make use of. And that 4 gigabyte limit could really become an issue sooner rather than later.

Problem #2: Handles? What are they? The new Resource limit.

Most people don't know what handles are. Most people don't need to care about them.  But unless Windows Vista is able to do something about them, the term "user handles" will start to become something people know about, read about, buy utilities to deal with.

Right now, hit Ctrl-Shift-Esc on your computer. This brings up the task manager on Windows XP.  Go to the Performance tab.  How many handles are you using right now?  I've got a ton of programs going right now and I'm using 18,000 handles.  When my machine boots, it's using around 2,400 handles. 

What does that number mean?  Depending on your configuration, somewhere around 25,000 handles your Windows machine will start to slow down dramatically and eventually programs will fail to launch, weird errors will start to show up and eventually things will start to crash or not function.

My Windows Vista box starts out at around 12,000 handles on boot up and quickly climbs to 15,000 without really doing anything.  Loading up Internet Explorer 7 takes it up rather quickly to 800 megs of memory and a lot more handles being used.

My concern is that non-power users are going to start bumping up against the handle limit.  The 64-bit version of Vista doesn't seem to have a problem with lots of handles so there is an escape path for the long term.

What I am hoping is that if someone with clout at Microsoft will have this issue brought to their attention and have it dealt with. The handle issue is already a problem for many power users on Windows XP.  It's probably the most common cause of system instability.  With Windows Vista having built in search (which consumes a lot of handles just as Google Desktop does), handles could become a serious problem.

Problem #3: Compatibility

The radical architectural improvements to Windows may come with a price -- compatibility.  First, let me say loudly that it is not fair to judge the final product based on the beta.  But I do know what the compatibility was on Whistler at this stage versus Vista.  And if your response to that is "Yea but Vista is a much bigger change" then realize this -- it doesn't matter to users how big the change is under the covers if their programs don't run.  Windows Vista is supposed to be going to manufacturing in a few months.

Users submitting bugs (and feel free to ask anyone in the beta to verify this) can tell you tales of reporting a bug or compatibility problem to have it closed with a "working as designed".  I know our guys are getting frustrated turning in a well documented, repeatable bugs only to have it seemingly blown off and having it continue to show up month after month (Hey, Logon team, we're all waiting for a replacement API to the Winlogon notify stuff, it's been half a year!).

If you stick with the built in apps in Windows Vista along with very mainstream apps, things are fine.  But as soon as you start venturing out, things get murky.  And I don't refer to desktop enhancement programs (WindowBlinds is running fine on Windows Vista).  It's usually "little things".  My Verizon connection program or some shareware program or whatever. 

As an evil capitalistic developer, poor compatibility is good news "New version! Now works on Windows Vista! Pay up! Whohaaha (singing) I'm getting a boat..a brand..new..boat (/singing)"  But as a user, I am concerned that early adopters may find that many tools and programs they rely on have problems.

This may simply be something that Microsoft can't solve or shouldn't solve. But if that is the case, then Microsoft needs to spread the message that Windows Vista is a truly new version of Windows and some legacy software may need to be updated. I think users will understand that as long as it's communicated effectively before hand.

But for users who can't get their scanner to work or some custom gizmo, or applet that came bundled with their printer or whatever, it's going to be annoying if they had no idea that going to Vista was going to mean that a noticeable chunk of their programs don't run correctly.

Let me show you a screenshot that shows the excellent potential of Vista as well as the current problems:

What a cool utility and yet it also implies we have a long way to go.

Problem #4: Unowned Slop

What the heck is all this crap in my task list on boot up? SVChost wasn't funny in Windows XP when there were 5 of them and it's a lot less funny when there are a dozen of them -- ON A FRESH BOOT UP!  Look at this stuff.  These are all the processes running on a fresh boot up of Windows Vista beta (5381).

Microsoft talks about security but it's just not acceptable that Windows Vista should have a generic process name like svchost anymore.  Each thing that wants a piece of my memory should have to have a name so that we know what it is. A third party could certainly write an application that digs into each svchost and then refeeds it into task list but this really should be part of the OS.  I think it would also put more pressure on the various empires within Microsoft to justify their existence as part of the initial boot.

Most of all, it just looks sloppy.  Clean? Clear? Confident? Some early adopters are going to open this up, see this mess and think "Bloated, sloppy, kludged". Feel free to comment on what your thoughts are on that.  Am I just being anal? Maybe. But I suspect there's a lot of people out there who are going to take having 41 processes on bootup of which a dozen of them are called svchost.exe (as well as various duplicate process names) and not think kindly.

Problem #5: It's Annoying!

There are so  many new "security" oriented dialogs that the entire experience, when coupled with the above mentioned issues take out the "fun" of using the OS.  Want to empty your recycle bin? You need to go through multiple dialogs to do that including a security prompt! Even as a so-called administrator, you can't get into all the folders on your system.  And some of the folders you can get into, you can't write to files in them! Admins have certainly lost a lot of power it seems. See the screenshot of trying to get into "My Pictures" as an admin.

It's really hard to describe in words how annoying it is to constantly be prompted to enter a password or to boost your privileges to do seemingly trivial things.  It interrupts ones workflow, train of thought and well, it just goofs up my groove, man.  Microsoft is working on these issues and they are aware of them, but the recycling bin debacle makes me wonder how such obvious issues could make it so far into the beta process.

So what should be done?

Windows Vista is more important than Windows XP or Windows 2000.  It is an ambitious project that demonstrates Microsoft's ability to innovate.  A lot of people unfairly criticize Microsoft for not being innovative.  Sometimes the criticism is fair but Windows Vista truly is innovative. Even if some of the ideas in Windows Vista got executed elsewhere first, Microsoft had come up with many concepts and ideas first (gadgets may seem similar to Apple's widgets which were similar to Konfabulator's widgets but were all predated by DesktopX by years which was predated by Active Desktop and other concepts as well for instance and the Sidebar gadgets were in the earliest Longhorn builds long before Konfabulator showed up -- though after DesktopX).

But what we need to know is that Microsoft will not rush Windows Vista out for some arbitrary marketing date.  That, if necessary, Microsoft will move the Windows Vista date back even if that makes PC manufacturers scream bloody murder. 

I am not suggesting that Microsoft can't address the concerns I point out there by the time they hope to release to manufacturing.  But I am saying that I think it is going to be a very tense summer in Redmond in order to make the date given where the OS is right now.  When Windows Vista beta 2 comes out for the public, people will be able to judge for themselves and decide what the status of the OS is. 

What are your thoughts?

First Previous Page 2 of 3 Next Last
JcRabbit
Reply #21 Friday, May 19, 2006 8:07 AM
I can see Microsoft is heading straight for trouble: with Win95, they spent a TON of resources making sure the new OS version was compatible with basically everything out there. An incredible, but true, story was that of the development manager at Microsoft that actually bought a FULL PICK-UP TRUCK of software from the local Egghead computer store, distributed up to two programs per each member of the Windows 95 team and assigned them the task of installing the programs and reporting back on every problem, however minor ( http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/08/24/455557.aspx ).

Then came the Dot Net shift, where, for the first time in Microsoft's history, the next version of a programming language was COMPLETELY incompatible with previous versions, although it had the same name. Suddenly backwards compatibility didn't seem to matter anymore at Microsoft.

The problem is that there are a lot of annoying things (Windows Activation, Windows Genuine Validation, lack of concern with backwards compatibility, and, now, OS bloat) currently piling up and generating ill feelings towards Microsoft. Software bloat has always been a fact of life with each OS version, but, in the end, people ended up upgrading their hardware. However, also for the first time, hardware that was introduced 4 years ago is still considered GOOD ENOUGH 4 years later! Vista is going to change this.

The objective of Microsoft also seems to be to get to the point where they can actually RENT the OS instead of licensing it, i.e.; turn it into a service, where you have to pay Microsoft a yearly fee to keep on using the OS. XP Activation, Windows Genuine Validation, those are just tools Microsoft is using to test the waters and to establish the foundations for what's coming next. If you think DRM is bad, just wait till Microsoft shoves this down our throats.

In the end, Microsoft runs the risk of alienating their users. Steve Jobs has certainly noticed this, which is, in my opinion, one of the reasons you can finally run Windows on Apple hardware: this actually makes it easier for people to first double boot and, later, switch to OSX if/when the time comes.

I sincerely hope Microsoft does not make the final, fatal mistake, of releasing Vista before it's ready! As someone once said: 'A customer will soon forgive you for shipping good stuff later than you promised but will never forgive you for shipping bad stuff on time.' Novell, which was once known for solid releases, did this once and never recovered.
Dr Guy
Reply #22 Friday, May 19, 2006 8:25 AM
All the 'seucrity' dialogs are not only annoying, but also a security problem. The result of having those dialogs everywhere is training the user to click themaway without really reading them.
*click* not again... *click* yes I really want *click* YES! *click* ...


Grrrrrr! Yes! I tried to explain that to the security group here, and it fell on deaf ears. Too much security is as bad as too little.
WolfmanZ
Reply #23 Friday, May 19, 2006 10:00 AM
Just an FYI, if you want to know what is really running under SVCHOST.EXE, go to a command prompt and run "tasklist /svc". I'm not excusing MS, but at least there is a way.
DJBandit
Reply #24 Friday, May 19, 2006 12:04 PM
I have read a lot of articles and reviews on Vista. The concept sounds great. The ideas are awesome. Vista seems like s whole new kind of OS to me and in a world where people spend most of their time complaining over how bad XP is because of all the patches it needs, what would one expect from a new OS?

To me I see it as Vista is like an Electric or E85 car and XP is like today’s car. While XP runs great and every so often has a new feature, a new security program and /or better hardware for it; like a car has new features, better security and more powerful engines, they both have serious problems that need to be addressed. XP has too many holes and cars use gas, which is bad for the environment.

So how do you fix these problems? Only one way, starting from scratch and making them new. Vista’s entire system is similar and at the same time different from that of XP’s, just like and electric or E85 car is different from a regular gas driven car. And they both will require new ways to make them work, Vista will need new versions of applications that can run and take advantage of it’s new environment ( I don’t see why that’s a bad thing, except for having to spend extra money, nothing we humans haven’t done before) and the electric and E85 cars will need new pump and recharge stations to keep them going. But the beauty of it is that both will have great benefits in the end, Vista will be much more secure since the system is designed with multiple layers of protection (shouldn’t be as easy for viruses as with XP) and electric and E85 cars will be better for the environment.

So to me, these big changes are not as bad as many might see them. The price for a better and more secure lifestyle (keeping in mind if the electric, E85 and Vista work like they should) should not always be what drives you to it. Everything in life changes and we have always managed to adapt before. We can do it again. JMO.

I agree Vista is bloated, hopefully MS will reduce that a lot but don't expect to have a better system by running less power that you do now. Remember, high performance cars use more gas than regular cars.

Great article Brad, the key here is that people should be well informed before taking the leap into Vista. What I don't agree with is what someone here said about making Vista easier for those who don;'t read instructions. On the contrary, all the work to make something easier for the lazy is what makes XP such a swiss cheese of an OS. People need to learn to understand PC's more, this is a new time and a new generation and it's time to get with the program and be more informed on how PC's work.
JazGam
Reply #25 Friday, May 19, 2006 1:46 PM
Well there has been too much trash talk about the svchost processes. But that's always been there and no one ever complained about it. There are also a lot of people yelling at Microsoft just cause of all the svchost processes without even knowing what it really is. If you don't run the svchosts then you won't have any service running on the system, plain and simple. Now I want you to take a look at what svchost really is, and that's under windows XP:

1 - Go to run and type in "regedit.exe" this should bring up the Registry Editor window.

2 - Now either navigate or search for the following key:

"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows NT/Current Version/SvcHost"

There you will find multiple "Multi-string Values", which are the task or services the SvcHost runs under its privilege. You can also notice this if you go to “services.msc” and double click any Service that's running, look at the "Path to executable" string and you will see something like this:

"C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe -k LocalService"
The LocalService string contains the following values:

Alerter
WebClient
LmHosts
RemoteRegistry
upnphost
SSDPSRV

Let's try another one now, the netsvc multi-string (I love this one ):

Double click the "System Restore Service" and look at the Path to executable, this is what we got:

"C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe -k netsvcs"
Now go back to regedit and double click the "netsvc" multi-string value. Let me just paste the content of this string right here:

6to4
AppMgmt
AudioSrv
Browser
CryptSvc
DMServer
DHCP
ERSvc
EventSystem
FastUserSwitchingCompatibility
HidServ
Ias
Iprip
Irmon
LanmanServer
LanmanWorkstation
Messenger
Netman
Nla
Ntmssvc
NWCWorkstation
Nwsapagent
Rasauto
Rasman
Remoteaccess
Schedule
Seclogon
SENS
Sharedaccess
SRService
Tapisrv
Themes
TrkWks
W32Time
WZCSVC
Wmi
WmdmPmSp
winmgmt
TermService
wuauserv
BITS
ShellHWDetection
helpsvc
Ip6FwHlp
WmdmPmSN
xmlprov
wscsvc


Now this is just a multi-string that’s being started by the SvcHost application, in which you can find multiple tasks or services; so let’s say that SvcHost runs the system tasks that run and take care of all the other services under the system. There is no way to get rid of this as most of you want now that you saw all the svchost junk under the Task Manager. The only thing that I don't find right (along with Wardell) is that now it’s almost impossible to determine which task is being run by the svchost application. Well guess what, who gives a darn about that. No home user really cares what about what’s going on "under the table". Perhaps power users would care about them, and that’s something that needs to be fixed. Perhaps adding another column with a description of each process running might solve the problem.
JazGam
Reply #26 Friday, May 19, 2006 1:49 PM
Doublepost.
Content deleted.
pg--az
Reply #27 Friday, May 19, 2006 2:35 PM
>> there's a good chance that you'll click 'Yes' by reflex on the one really cirtical pop-up where you should have clicked 'No'. <<

This is SO TRUE, having studied that dated-but-insightful "Humane Interface" book by the late Jef Raskin I am also sensitive to this. There simply MUST be a way to clue the OS so that these security-confirmations do not become reflex, otherwise like you say they are not only annoying but worthless because you DO have reflexes, it's not a matter of opinion. I recall for example emptying the recycle bin by reflex and in mid-click my deep-thinking-forebrain got a sinking feeling, but it was too late for muscle-memory.

Anyone LISTENING from Microsoft ?
PurrBall
Reply #28 Friday, May 19, 2006 2:35 PM
Here is an image of my task manager at fresh boot... I think about 70 megs of memory and only a few handles shows how much you can slim down XP.



JcRabbit
Reply #29 Friday, May 19, 2006 2:44 PM
More information about svchosts can be found here:

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2003/09/18/55016.aspx

(Yes, I'm a Raymond Chen fan )

If you think it's bad now in Vista, imagine if services were not being clustered together in several svchost processes: you would have a process list that would be one mile long. On the other hand, services do mis-behave from time to time, and/or they leak memory/handles. With the svchosts method, finding out exactly which services are leaking is not exactly something you do at a glance.

My 3 cents to fix the problem is: add a check box to task manager to show services, and don't show them by default - instead show a virtual 'Services' process, holding the sum of the attributes of all currently running svchost processes (i.e; memory used, handles used, CPU % usage, etc...). If the user selects the 'Show Services' check box, then Task Manager should show all the individual services within each svchost process. Selecting End Process on a service would simply STOP that service instead of killing the entire svchost host process.
JazGam
Reply #30 Friday, May 19, 2006 3:18 PM
Either way this OS is far from being the early Longhorn system core. Vista is all done by now. Any compliment or upgraded feature might just be added as a patch for the system once its finally released. We're too far away on the road now. Microsoft did some good stuff and they deserve a huge applause; this OS might end up being what they called "The Best Operating System for the Personal Computer". And they also made a few others become a bit worse but it all depends in the way you are willing to use your OS. Windows Vista Ultimate will be running on my PC 2 days after it hits stores.

kin242
Reply #31 Friday, May 19, 2006 3:18 PM
Brilliant, informative review and also highly relevant to stardock customers.

thanks!
BlueDev
Reply #32 Friday, May 19, 2006 3:57 PM
An excellent and most insightful article Brad.  Many thanks for writing this.
Cody-7
Reply #33 Friday, May 19, 2006 7:21 PM
I must agree, this is a very well written article, Brad.

There's alot of at stake with Windows Vista, but i think many people who posted here are forgetting that we're on the brink of a huge technological change. I've been testing Windows Vista back since build 5113, i believe. It has come EONS from where it was then - back when it was still called Longhorn. Many of you are upset over the fact a 64MB video card cannot run Vista's new effects - and the OS is using 500-700+ MB of ram. Remember that we're on the brink of a complete change in technology! Post No.24 that Charles.C made is a good example of this (Electric cars). I'm sure Windows XP's RAM requirments were way above Windows 98 /2K, Do we have anyone here who had beta tested Windows XP, and talked about the requirments that stressed computers? If we do, someone please speak up!

Although, i'm also worried about alot of bugs / problems that Microsoft still hasn't adressed. When I think about it, i believe the only reason I am / We are so concerned is because we have so many programs that work on windows, and windows alone, so we're kind of in Microsoft's hands. They can make us, or break us with a single line of code Here's my take on the Vista issues:

The "Bloated" Feel: I also think the OS feels a bit bloated right now. One thing is certain though, more ram and memory is needed than ever before. Eventually we will catch up to this but remember - this is a HUGE transition!

What?! a 128MB Video card?! I know that many people are frustrated that a higher-end video card is needed to run the spiffy Aero effects in Vista, and everyone's going to have to fork out alot of money to get there. But as many of you Stardock power users know, the entire Windows XP GUI is done in software. This means that your video card (The hardware) has very little do do with it. If you run ObjectDock or try to apply little shadows to a window with WindowFX the GUI becomes extremley sluggish and doesn't work very well. If they use high-end video cards to help out with the interface, however, it will run as smooth as a baby's bottom; and really cool morphing effects can be done.

The security: I'm agreeing with you guys on the fact that the "Pop-up security" (Officially called User Account Protection, for those of you who don't know) is a joke. I stopped using Internet Explorer a long time ago, because of all the spyware and viruses my computer became infested with. When SP2 came out, it just added the "information bar" which acts the same way that the security pop-ups in vista do. They constantly pop-up when you're trying to do simple things like emptying your recycle bin. In the end, do you really think a pop-up asking you what to do will stop a virus?

The memory cap, and thread handling issue: Vista is certainly a memory hog, and it's probably not long before more than 1GB of ram is standard for your PC. It's getting to the point where 32-bit PC's can't handle all the processes going on like 64-bit PCs can. x64 technology has been around for a while now, and really hasn't done anything. I'm hoping that in the future Vista will allow 64-bit to become standard and really live up to it's capability - and like i said, it's been around so it's not as expensive as you'd think. The biggest problem with using the 64-bit version of Windows right now is having old software work on it. But that's being worked on.

Overall, i'm impressed with Windows Vista. I think microsoft has started thinking about the future, and they've been pushing the cutting edge. This means it needs better hardware, and most people will have to upgrade - But BE PATIENT MY FRIENDS! If Microsoft is thinking about the future that means Macintosh will have nothing on us when their next OS is released! Let's just hope they don't release Vista too early in a rush to get it done

-Cody.
moshi
Reply #34 Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:44 AM
...I pointed to svchosts all over the place and said 'knock yourself out deciphering them'.
'svchost' is tech-speak for 'that process thingie we dunno what it's for, but'


go to your command line and type:
tasklist /svc

not that hard ...
tdgeorge
Reply #35 Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:51 AM
Cody,

Very good work, keep keeping us informed!! Most of us do not have the expertise as you and others, as we rely heavily on your in-depth reviews of new software. The point of have multiple files names show up in the boot process is well taken. Also, what is beyond Administrator?? I mean, whats the point of have Admin provilages if you can't actually administer the OS?! Thanks again.

Tom G.
Cody-7
Reply #36 Saturday, May 20, 2006 11:09 AM
Thanks, Tom. I tried to give you guys an in-depth review from my eyes to give you guys as much info as possible. I don't know why my bold tags didn't work, tho - it says i can no longer edit the post

-Cheers!
Tarkus
Reply #37 Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:08 PM
'TASKLIST' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
Frogboy
Reply #38 Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:07 PM

I am not sure how to react to someone suggesting that I don't know what svchost.exe is.  In an article that talks about PAEs and the AWE APIs, something as trivial as what svchost.exe's are you'd think someone would assume I would already know something about..

The issue isn't that Microsoft is wrapping services into a single process. The issue is the obfuscation of these services -- and that third parties can take advantage of these services too incidentally.  Perhaps some cunning malware author should just make use of them while they're at it.

Microsoft needs to come up with a better/more transparent encapsulation mechanism.

Moreover, even with this encapsulation, we're dealing with an OS that currently starts out with over 40 running processes.  Come on.  That's absurd.  And that's before we get in with all the junkola that third parties are going to stuff in there as well.

Booting up using over 40 processes that lay claim to over half a gigabyte of memory is an issue.  I'm not one of those crankly old-timers longing for the days of my Amiga with its 512K of multitasking goodness.  If you're going to require 40 processes and half a gif of RAM on start-up, you better be giving me something nice and fun in return.  And I'm not seeing it.

Ambiguous9ine
Reply #39 Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:16 PM
While I can't really comment on most of the issues discussed in the article, as I have not experienced them, I still have some comments. The one thing that seems silly to me is the security dialogs. I barely see any with XP, I like that, and I haven't screwed up my computer! Another thing that I think is bad is all of the versions Microsoft plans to release. I believe that's only going to cause confusion to consumers.

I could also add some more comments, but they don't really apply to Vista.
kenwas
Reply #40 Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:34 AM
Booting up using over 40 processes that lay claim to over half a gigabyte of memory is an issue. I'm not one of those crankly old-timers longing for the days of my Amiga with its 512K of multitasking goodness. If you're going to require 40 processes and half a gif of RAM on start-up, you better be giving me something nice and fun in return. And I'm not seeing it


That is the real issue with MS, and many other software makers, I think. It is like giving an employee a larger office. There will be an immediate compulsion to fill it with more furniture that somewhow becomes a "necessity". I want any extra power I get to run programs faster and better and not be immediately sucked up by processes that I may not even use or want to use for that matter.

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