Is Skinning ALL Stardock Is About?
Or could it be they cater to wider interests?
Monday, August 15, 2005 by Zoomba | Discussion: Virtual Communities
I've been a member of the Stardock Community since November of 2002. I'm nowhere near being one of the early members, and in fact I came to Stardock by a route much different from most. I'm not a windows customization junkie. In fact, at the time my only experiences with WindowBlinds has been under Win98 on a woefully underpowered machine and the themes I was able to find weren't all that great to look at, so I was pretty much turned off by the whole customization deal for quite a while. I came to Stardock when a game news site I frequented mentioned that this company I had never heard of was having a beta test for its upcoming 4x space strategy game, Galactic Civilizations. Now, at the time I was hyped up and waiting impatiently for Master of Orion 3, and I needed my conquer-the-galaxy game fix, so I came running. I gladly plopped down a preorder to get beta access and was sucked into the game.
Over time I started to explore the other sites and products from Stardock. I gave Object Desktop another spin and found it vastly improved since I had last visited the product set, and I found that there were other games for me to play. But to play them I needed a Dregnin subscription, so I got a discounted subscription since I was a GalCiv owner and got access to the rest of the Stardock games. While I was diving deep into the other products offered by Stardock, I stumbled on this site called JoeUser, yet another web log site. The difference here was the community focus and the style of articles written. It wasn't like LiveJournal where people whined and complained because their 8th grade boyfriend/girlfriend hadn't called in the past 2 hours and they missed them so much and how their parents just didn't understand how you two are deeply and truely in love and want to get married and have kids and you'll always be together and and and *gasps for air* Here on JU, it was (mostly) adult conversation. People wrote interesting things and debate/discussion often resulted.
From there I started fiddling with Stardock Central a bit more and noticed the IRC client, so I started popping into #Stardock and #GalCiv and would occassionally jump in on some conversation here or there. in #Stardock, mostly the topics revolved around skinning and the ObjectDesktop suite of tools. Sometimes it would wander and just be about silly fluff, but it usually came back to skinning. #GalCiv was pretty dead since a fair bit of time had passed since release of the game and interest had started to drop off. I frequented the channels off and on for about a year. It wasn't until GalCiv 2 was announced and then we started the JoeUser chat room that I became a more permenant fixture on the IRC server.
Why do I write all of this? Why do I recount my path of discovery as it relates to Stardock and its products and services? Well, because for some reason there are a lot of people out there who seem to think that ALL Stardock does is Windows Customization software and services. While I admit it's the lionshare of their business, it is not all they do. I have been chastised in #Stardock for having the audacity to start a conversation on anything that didn't directly relate to skinning. I've gotten put down for talking about GAMES and TECHNOLOGY before because it strayed too far from the sacred topic. People at WC lament regularly that content that may be relevant but originated outside of the sacred WC forums shouldn't be cross-posted as it is now, as if us unwashed masses are going to dirty the pure clean waters of their holy home. I just want to remind everyone that the skinner is not the only type of community member, it's not the only interest catered to by Brad & Co. Here's a quick list of some of the OTHER things Stardock does, for those of you who seem to have forgotten/been unaware of:
1. Game Development Company
Stardock has developed and released several top-notch games ranging from Lightweight Ninja, a Sonic The Hedgehog like sidescroller, to Galacitc Civilizations a turn based space strategy game to The Political Machine, a presidential campaign simulator. Up on the horizon they have Galactic Civilizations 2, a reinvention of the series in a damn good looking 3D engine as well as Society: The Game, a Real Time Strategy Massively Multiplayer Online Game. There are a lot of people out there who buy and play Stardock Games. With the addition of TotalGaming.Net, a new online game distribution channel, gaming is becoming a big pull to Stardock.
2. Online Communities
WinCustomize is probably the site everyone is the most familiar with since Win Customization is their biggest business right now, but they also have JoeUser, a great blog community that they just haven't started charging for yet. All of their sites attempt to foster community centered on the site topic, and they also attempt to share content across them when posted in relevant channels.
3. Office Productivity
Enter ThinkDesk, the latest tool offerings from Stardock. Right now there's only Multiplicity, which allows multiple computers to be managed from one keyboard and one mouse, but they've got other nifty goodies lined up to go. These programs are catering to a COMPLETELY different crowd than their previous offerings.
4. Unrelated but cool ventures...
Poweruser.TV comes to mind as a pretty cool and really different direction for Stardock to be going in. Here they're addressing all sorts of different topics that span everything they do and more. Games, customization, new technology etc. This is going to bring to the larger community, Power Users who might not have taken notice of Stardock in the past.
Now, gamers may explore and discover that they can also change the appearance and behavior of their computers, or skinners may find a new game they adore, or maybe people from either camp would find some insanely useful ThinkDesk tool that simplifies their real life work. Then maybe they would start posting thought-provoking aritcles on topics that interest them. It's a massive cross-pollination of thoughts and opinions, and it exposes us all here to something new that we might not have considered before. I know I dabble a lot more with ODNT, and plan on buying Multiplicity the second there's a Mac version and will probably poke around with the other tools when they become available. Stardock sucked me in with a single game, but now they have a customer that has bought a wide range of their products from all categories.
I just want you, the elitists amonst the WinCustomize community, to remember all of this next time you turn your nose up at anything that isn't connected to skinning. Remember that there are people out there in the Stardock network that didn't come here to tweak DesktopX, that didn't come here to get the latest ObjectBar skin and aren't interested/capable of making our own themes or whatnot. Remember that we, just like you, are customers of Stardock, we put in the cash just like you and we contribute in our own ways and in our own areas just like you do. We are no better and no worse than you are, so please cut the sneering, jeering and condescending tone you take with us. Stop acting all self-righteous when one of us writes a RELEVANT article in the areas of technology or the Internet and it gets crossposted to your sacred site. We get your stuff too all the time but you don't see us popping in on your threads saying "I don't think this belongs here on JU/GalCiv/Whatever site).
We're all part of a larger community, I hope you can learn to become better neighbors."
Over time I started to explore the other sites and products from Stardock. I gave Object Desktop another spin and found it vastly improved since I had last visited the product set, and I found that there were other games for me to play. But to play them I needed a Dregnin subscription, so I got a discounted subscription since I was a GalCiv owner and got access to the rest of the Stardock games. While I was diving deep into the other products offered by Stardock, I stumbled on this site called JoeUser, yet another web log site. The difference here was the community focus and the style of articles written. It wasn't like LiveJournal where people whined and complained because their 8th grade boyfriend/girlfriend hadn't called in the past 2 hours and they missed them so much and how their parents just didn't understand how you two are deeply and truely in love and want to get married and have kids and you'll always be together and and and *gasps for air* Here on JU, it was (mostly) adult conversation. People wrote interesting things and debate/discussion often resulted.
From there I started fiddling with Stardock Central a bit more and noticed the IRC client, so I started popping into #Stardock and #GalCiv and would occassionally jump in on some conversation here or there. in #Stardock, mostly the topics revolved around skinning and the ObjectDesktop suite of tools. Sometimes it would wander and just be about silly fluff, but it usually came back to skinning. #GalCiv was pretty dead since a fair bit of time had passed since release of the game and interest had started to drop off. I frequented the channels off and on for about a year. It wasn't until GalCiv 2 was announced and then we started the JoeUser chat room that I became a more permenant fixture on the IRC server.
Why do I write all of this? Why do I recount my path of discovery as it relates to Stardock and its products and services? Well, because for some reason there are a lot of people out there who seem to think that ALL Stardock does is Windows Customization software and services. While I admit it's the lionshare of their business, it is not all they do. I have been chastised in #Stardock for having the audacity to start a conversation on anything that didn't directly relate to skinning. I've gotten put down for talking about GAMES and TECHNOLOGY before because it strayed too far from the sacred topic. People at WC lament regularly that content that may be relevant but originated outside of the sacred WC forums shouldn't be cross-posted as it is now, as if us unwashed masses are going to dirty the pure clean waters of their holy home. I just want to remind everyone that the skinner is not the only type of community member, it's not the only interest catered to by Brad & Co. Here's a quick list of some of the OTHER things Stardock does, for those of you who seem to have forgotten/been unaware of:
1. Game Development Company
Stardock has developed and released several top-notch games ranging from Lightweight Ninja, a Sonic The Hedgehog like sidescroller, to Galacitc Civilizations a turn based space strategy game to The Political Machine, a presidential campaign simulator. Up on the horizon they have Galactic Civilizations 2, a reinvention of the series in a damn good looking 3D engine as well as Society: The Game, a Real Time Strategy Massively Multiplayer Online Game. There are a lot of people out there who buy and play Stardock Games. With the addition of TotalGaming.Net, a new online game distribution channel, gaming is becoming a big pull to Stardock.
2. Online Communities
WinCustomize is probably the site everyone is the most familiar with since Win Customization is their biggest business right now, but they also have JoeUser, a great blog community that they just haven't started charging for yet. All of their sites attempt to foster community centered on the site topic, and they also attempt to share content across them when posted in relevant channels.
3. Office Productivity
Enter ThinkDesk, the latest tool offerings from Stardock. Right now there's only Multiplicity, which allows multiple computers to be managed from one keyboard and one mouse, but they've got other nifty goodies lined up to go. These programs are catering to a COMPLETELY different crowd than their previous offerings.
4. Unrelated but cool ventures...
Poweruser.TV comes to mind as a pretty cool and really different direction for Stardock to be going in. Here they're addressing all sorts of different topics that span everything they do and more. Games, customization, new technology etc. This is going to bring to the larger community, Power Users who might not have taken notice of Stardock in the past.
Now, gamers may explore and discover that they can also change the appearance and behavior of their computers, or skinners may find a new game they adore, or maybe people from either camp would find some insanely useful ThinkDesk tool that simplifies their real life work. Then maybe they would start posting thought-provoking aritcles on topics that interest them. It's a massive cross-pollination of thoughts and opinions, and it exposes us all here to something new that we might not have considered before. I know I dabble a lot more with ODNT, and plan on buying Multiplicity the second there's a Mac version and will probably poke around with the other tools when they become available. Stardock sucked me in with a single game, but now they have a customer that has bought a wide range of their products from all categories.
I just want you, the elitists amonst the WinCustomize community, to remember all of this next time you turn your nose up at anything that isn't connected to skinning. Remember that there are people out there in the Stardock network that didn't come here to tweak DesktopX, that didn't come here to get the latest ObjectBar skin and aren't interested/capable of making our own themes or whatnot. Remember that we, just like you, are customers of Stardock, we put in the cash just like you and we contribute in our own ways and in our own areas just like you do. We are no better and no worse than you are, so please cut the sneering, jeering and condescending tone you take with us. Stop acting all self-righteous when one of us writes a RELEVANT article in the areas of technology or the Internet and it gets crossposted to your sacred site. We get your stuff too all the time but you don't see us popping in on your threads saying "I don't think this belongs here on JU/GalCiv/Whatever site).
We're all part of a larger community, I hope you can learn to become better neighbors."
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BlueDev
Reply #2 Monday, August 15, 2005 11:46 AM
Reply #2 Monday, August 15, 2005 11:46 AM
Excellent article Zoomba. As one who stradles many of the Stardock lines (I was first introduced via Gal Civ, like you, but then ended up getting an OD subscription, then found my way onto JU) I find it disappointing to see some of the fractioning that goes on. Your last sentence is eloquent, simple and spot on.
Cordelia
Reply #4 Monday, August 15, 2005 1:11 PM
Reply #4 Monday, August 15, 2005 1:11 PM
And you said you weren't a good writer.
I think you've made some excellent points, and although I work for Stardock (and am therefore biased) I am very proud of the community here and honored to be a part of it. While most of the members of this community are friendly and inviting, there are a few who are not part of that norm. I have occasionally seen the "this doesn't belong" comments that you refer to and I've never been quite certain why anyone would say that about a forum post - the only result is to make people feel unwelcome.
Your comments also apply to any net community. It does seem that the rule of thumb is "if you don't have anything nice to say, then say something mean". We should all learn to be a little more welcoming to our "neighbors". (Unless they are asking for a debate, and then let 'er rip!)
Well said Z.
Zoomba
Reply #5 Monday, August 15, 2005 1:32 PM
Reply #5 Monday, August 15, 2005 1:32 PM
Heh, I'm good at writing this sort of stuff, opinion pieces and academic papers (and imagine how good I am at them when I use spell and grammar check!). Those are a far cry from character-based fiction pieces though 
And you're right Cordelia, a vast majority of the community is an absolute pleasure to deal with. They're courteous, helpful and pleasant people, sadly they tend to vanish into the background noise a lot. It's just that the negative ones are the ones who make the most noise and bring themselves the most attention.
I mean, just look at Emily's thread on "You think you're better than me?" It starts out criticizing the holier-than-thou attitude some on WC show towards their own membership, and then turns into a 100+ post discussion the use of profanity in the original post (ironically proving the original poster's point and never actually addressing what she said, just how she said it).
Brad even chimed in over there saying it was this kind of attitude that drives people (even himself sometimes) away from WC. It's when this attitude on WC spills into the rest of the network that things start to get worse. I have felt at times very unwelcome in the Stardock world because I'm not a customization junkie... and it's never because of the staff or site admins, it's always some user who thinks they're the authority on what should or shouldn't be allowed around here.
When the shit hits the fan like this, the good people sit by quietly and don't get involved. So it's the jerks that get all the exposure and the freedom to crap all over people. I'd like to see some of the good community members stand up for the right thing from time to time. Stand up, defend those who are being attacked, call a troll a troll, and maybe the positive elements can overshadow the few negative ones.
And you're right Cordelia, a vast majority of the community is an absolute pleasure to deal with. They're courteous, helpful and pleasant people, sadly they tend to vanish into the background noise a lot. It's just that the negative ones are the ones who make the most noise and bring themselves the most attention.
I mean, just look at Emily's thread on "You think you're better than me?" It starts out criticizing the holier-than-thou attitude some on WC show towards their own membership, and then turns into a 100+ post discussion the use of profanity in the original post (ironically proving the original poster's point and never actually addressing what she said, just how she said it).
Brad even chimed in over there saying it was this kind of attitude that drives people (even himself sometimes) away from WC. It's when this attitude on WC spills into the rest of the network that things start to get worse. I have felt at times very unwelcome in the Stardock world because I'm not a customization junkie... and it's never because of the staff or site admins, it's always some user who thinks they're the authority on what should or shouldn't be allowed around here.
When the shit hits the fan like this, the good people sit by quietly and don't get involved. So it's the jerks that get all the exposure and the freedom to crap all over people. I'd like to see some of the good community members stand up for the right thing from time to time. Stand up, defend those who are being attacked, call a troll a troll, and maybe the positive elements can overshadow the few negative ones.
BoXXi
Reply #6 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:20 PM
Reply #6 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:20 PM
You make many salient points, and then spoil it all by calling the people who frequent WinCustomize (a skinning site!) elitist. Many of we "elitists" DO actually know that Stardock is about much more than skinning, but do not choose to carry our crusade to other areas of Stardock, like JoeUser. I don't come over there and call you a Blogging elitist because that is where YOU choose to hang out.
I think you should choose your words a little more carefully in future. Thank you.
Zoomba
Reply #7 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:34 PM
Reply #7 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:34 PM
BoXXi... my comments were direct at those who ARE elitist. And I posted this on JoeUser, not through WC. It got featured over there because some admin or employee liked it.
You missed the biggest point, that I'm not attacking the average users... they're very civil and wonderful people to deal with. I'm talking about those who ARE elitist, who have that holier-than-thou attitude... Just like Emily is railing against the assholes with a sense of entitlement. Neither of us is saying those who frequent WC are all elitist or assholes, we're targeting the portion of the larger population who ARE those things.
I think you might have taken it too personally. I wrote this to those who thought skinning IS the end-all-be-all of Stardock, and that the rest of us are second class citizens. Unless you yourself express such opinions, then this article wasn't about you in the least, and I thought you'd be able to recognize that.
You missed the biggest point, that I'm not attacking the average users... they're very civil and wonderful people to deal with. I'm talking about those who ARE elitist, who have that holier-than-thou attitude... Just like Emily is railing against the assholes with a sense of entitlement. Neither of us is saying those who frequent WC are all elitist or assholes, we're targeting the portion of the larger population who ARE those things.
I think you might have taken it too personally. I wrote this to those who thought skinning IS the end-all-be-all of Stardock, and that the rest of us are second class citizens. Unless you yourself express such opinions, then this article wasn't about you in the least, and I thought you'd be able to recognize that.
Cordelia
Reply #8 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:38 PM
Reply #8 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:38 PM
Hello BoXXi. 
I understand your point, and perhaps that word was ill-chosen (although I'll let Zoomba speak to that). However, it is frustrating when a JU blog gets syndicated over to WC and the WC people leave comments like "Why are you writing this? This doesn't belong here."
Unfortunately if I am writing a personal blog about my computer dying and I put it under the topic of "Personal Computing" it will show up on WC and people do leave comments like that. Sadly, it does make those citizens seem "elitist", as they are basically saying "go away, you don't belong here". And those bloggers are not people who are "carrying their crusade" anywhere. They simply chose a topic that they may or may not have known was going to show up on another site. Imagine their surprise when they read their blog over at JU and have some comment on their blog saying the article doesn't belong there.
Now I realize that when you mention "carrying their crusade" you are specifically referring to Zoomba's article. I am equally certain that you would not leave comments like that, but others do, and those are the people Zoomba is talking to.
And now that I have done just what I said I wasn't going to do, which is to answer for Zoomba, I'll be quiet now. 
Zoomba
Reply #9 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:42 PM
Bingo! I'm glad you understood my point at least... I was afraid I didn't articulate it well enough when BoXXi responded with his comment
Reply #9 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:42 PM
| I am equally certain that you would not leave comments like that, but others do, and those are the people Zoomba is talking to. |
Bingo! I'm glad you understood my point at least... I was afraid I didn't articulate it well enough when BoXXi responded with his comment
Cordelia
Reply #10 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:48 PM
Reply #10 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:48 PM
I grok you.
| Unless you yourself express such opinions, then this article wasn't about you in the least, and I thought you'd be able to recognize that. |
Got to say...this was just a tad antagonistic. BoXXi was just defending the honor of his community, as were you.
You are two of my favorite people in the greater metropolitan Stardock area. Don't let's fight or I'll give you both the people's elbow. And not in a good way. 
Zoomba
Reply #11 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:51 PM
Reply #11 Monday, August 15, 2005 2:51 PM
Hehe, you know I don't really hold grudges and rarely get my blood boiling over anything that is said on a website
And yeah, I know it was a bit antagonistic... I just got on the defensive a bit there for some reason, I hope BoXXi realizes how I meant for that to come out.
And yeah, I know it was a bit antagonistic... I just got on the defensive a bit there for some reason, I hope BoXXi realizes how I meant for that to come out.
Bichur
Reply #12 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:11 PM
I too missed this point. In fact I let several posts show up first to see if I was missing anything.
Quite honestly I read this as directed at everyone at WC. I even read it several times. I find nothing that separates from the normal user. I see the word 'elitist', as used in the sentence, as derogatory and directed at a whole not as a distinct separation of that whole.
Other than that, I hear ya.
Reply #12 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:11 PM
| You missed the biggest point, that I'm not attacking the average users... they're very civil and wonderful people to deal with |
I too missed this point. In fact I let several posts show up first to see if I was missing anything.
| I just want you, the elitist WinCustomize user, to remember all of this next time you turn your nose up at anything that isn't connected to skinning. |
Quite honestly I read this as directed at everyone at WC. I even read it several times. I find nothing that separates from the normal user. I see the word 'elitist', as used in the sentence, as derogatory and directed at a whole not as a distinct separation of that whole.
Other than that, I hear ya.
Zoomba
Reply #13 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:35 PM
Reply #13 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:35 PM
Ok... I guess my wording wasn't very clear/easily misread, so I'm going to edit the line to:
"I just want you, the elitists amonst the WinCustomize community...."
Is that better? It's what I intended honestly and I thought I had communicated it clearly enough, but well, guess I didn't. My target isn't the average WC user, it's the ones who DO turn their noses up at all non-skinning things whom I was targeting.
"I just want you, the elitists amonst the WinCustomize community...."
Is that better? It's what I intended honestly and I thought I had communicated it clearly enough, but well, guess I didn't. My target isn't the average WC user, it's the ones who DO turn their noses up at all non-skinning things whom I was targeting.
Cordelia
Reply #14 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:47 PM
Reply #14 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:47 PM
| so I'm going to edit the line |
You are a man of honor.
Bichur
Reply #16 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:59 PM
Reply #16 Monday, August 15, 2005 3:59 PM
oh, and I agree with Cordelia.. you write very well. 
Reppiks
Reply #18 Monday, August 15, 2005 5:25 PM
Reply #18 Monday, August 15, 2005 5:25 PM
Zoomba, your point is well taken. Although I've not commented out loud, I have wondered "How did this post show up under this topic" not thinking about how Joe User migrates into WinCustomize. There are pleanty of rambilings that go on here, If the topic doesn't intrest me, I just move on to another, without flaming the poster. Maybe thats why I go through life angry, kicking little dogs and taking lollypops away from babies, to relive my frustrations other than on a message board. (he says with tounge in cheek 
)
Maybe the topics could be better organized on this site so the migration of blogs would be more defined. Untill that happens, we will just have to be courteous enough to keep our mouth's shut if the subject mater doesn't match one's intrest.
Your post here was a good read, and inspired me to do this rambling in reply. I hope I have a chance to see another post of yours (but maybe a different topic).
) Maybe the topics could be better organized on this site so the migration of blogs would be more defined. Untill that happens, we will just have to be courteous enough to keep our mouth's shut if the subject mater doesn't match one's intrest.
Your post here was a good read, and inspired me to do this rambling in reply. I hope I have a chance to see another post of yours (but maybe a different topic).
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #19 Monday, August 15, 2005 6:50 PM
Reply #19 Monday, August 15, 2005 6:50 PM
Zoomba. One thing people on WinCustomize regret is being labelled elitist. Perhaps if you knew us better, and frequented WinCustomize more often, you would realize it is not our intention to appear that way. We are fanatics about our interest - that is not elitism, it is enthusiasm. I can't remember any WinCustomite criticizing a gamer or blogger for their interest.
So, why not come and see who we are. Learning about each other is how humans form relationships. Relationships are good things, they lead to communities
BoXXi
Reply #20 Monday, August 15, 2005 7:07 PM
Reply #20 Monday, August 15, 2005 7:07 PM
No harm done......... Cordelia: I'm STILL at the Eiffel Tower..!!!! (and I'm getting hungry now....)
Cordelia: I'm STILL at the Eiffel Tower..!!!! (and I'm getting hungry now....) Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #1 Monday, August 15, 2005 9:28 AM