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oxideorange
Comment #42 Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:48 AM
Comment #42 Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:48 AM
***I rarely post comments, as been noted by quite a few ppl here, however what I'm noticing is a trend here, this is a community where work is put into a mode of critique, if your going to post/upload skins expect and respect all aspects of comments if you think it's "negative" or not. *** That said, Butch I'm sure your skins are nice, I've not bothered to download em' as they are for vista, I have XP. However what the general consensus of comments in a lot of your postings/uploads is that ... they all look like the same skin redone. Many are requesting that you challenge yourself and do something innovative and different, I personally agree, take up the challenge as an artist. You say that you make skins for you, however that can not be entirely true, as you post your work here instead of keeping it to yourself.
slagny
Comment #43 Thursday, July 3, 2008 12:08 PM
Comment #43 Thursday, July 3, 2008 12:08 PM
Nice work butch. Your Vista skins are all 5 star as far as I'm concerned!!�
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unclerob
Comment #44 Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:42 PM
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Comment #44 Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:42 PM
***I rarely post comments, as been noted by quite a few ppl here, however what I'm noticing is a trend here, this is a community where work is put into a mode of critique, if your going to post/upload skins expect and respect all aspects of comments if you think it's "negative" or not. *** That said, Butch I'm sure your skins are nice, I've not bothered to download em' as they are for vista, I have XP. However what the general consensus of comments in a lot of your postings/uploads is that ... they all look like the same skin redone. Many are requesting that you challenge yourself and do something innovative and different, I personally agree, take up the challenge as an artist. You say that you make skins for you, however that can not be entirely true, as you post your work here instead of keeping it to yourself.
As a wincustomize user, isn't butch entitled to create the kind of wb skins he wants to work on? It's lovely to hear, "we'd love you to challenge yourself and do something innovative & different", but here's the real question that should be asked, why can't he just continue to work on the skins he wants to work on which is what pleases him and allow him to continue uploading his skins to this site where they are appreciated by more than just a few people? Why do we need to control what butch works on? If you like his skins, download them, if you don't like them, don't hit the download button - he's not controlling your action at your end. If you don't like the skin, go ahead and say vista skins aren't my thing. I've read comments for most of his wb skins, they're largely positive - more people tend to like them then dislike them. If this site is very much opposed to his skins, the moderators always have the option not to approve them for release in the wb skin section - no one apparently is focusing on that either. This comment is turning more into a forum post than a skin comment - my comment above was based on NT's "90% Diamond" remark, that was a bit harsh. Butch, I'll say it again, it's a good skin, keep on skinning!��
NightTrainthedark
Comment #45 Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:54 PM
Comment #45 Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:54 PM
Rob, you have no clue what you are babbling about. Compare the 2 skins side by side, if you don't come away from the comparison knowing that this skin is at least 90% (give or take a fewd)iamond images, either recolored or hacked, I will give up skinning forever. Yes, Forever. guaranteed. Your skins are also reworks of other peoples skins so I understand your need to defend here but you are wrong. Do some research next time before opening your mouth. You are trying to make me the bad guy and all I did was point out that this skin is a rip. The freakin window frames are the original diamond images hacked up for petes sake. Now I'll get harsh. This skin is the product of a phony download whore. (if admin feels necessary to remove my Master Status, I understand and won't argue. It's time someone calls it the way it is. This all doesn't matter because Butch will be removing the skin to hide the fact he is a phony. 
unclerob
Comment #46 Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:34 PM
Comment #46 Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:34 PM
NT, you pretty much crossed the line there. I don't babble but thanks for saying so. My skins are vista clones from the actual windows vista gui itself, I haven't gone into anyone's wb skins and borrowed graphics to make up my skins - thank you very much! That was low bro, even for you! But since my skins are "reworks" of other people's skins, I'd love a comparison to see where I lifted my material from - it could be fun to see what you're talking/"babbling" about. Now if you're referring to the comic art that I included with my skins, that isn't a rework of anything, I used that comic art to develop the theme of my skins - I make no apology for it either since I'm not making any profit from these skins. Heck I might just work on another one just because it seems to get under your skin. Seriously though, I'd love that list of skins where I reworked another skin to make my skin here in this section, pm me or email me rfcilia at gmail dot com - seriously I'd love to see this list, I'm really looking forward to it. When was diamond released for wincustomize users? Butch has been releasing his vista skins for quite some time now (not just on wc but on devart) and I'll wager that alot of his vista skins are older than diamond so how would he have borrowed from diamond to make his skins? Same thing with my vista skins, released before diamond was made available, maybe my vista skins are 90% diamond too?! BTW - I have compared the 2 skins, I don't see the similarity that you're implying, especially if it's 90% similar - shouldn't it be really similar then?! You said that I worked in marketing previously but your comment is the one that really took us for a spin. Dude you have a mean streak to you, but at least you admitted it, you are "HARSH". I've never heard anyone called a phony download whore on this or any other site, would I qualify as that as well? That was offensive man, I'd love to see an apology to Butch, we probably won't see one but I'd love to see one. I hear meditation helps for anger management, you definitely need to get to that happy place. That's me calling it the way it is.�
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unclerob
Comment #47 Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:37 PM
Comment #47 Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:37 PM
p.s. don't let the green skin fool you, I'm actually a pretty nice guy when the radiation wears off! � �
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butch123
Comment #48 Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:59 PM
Comment #48 Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:59 PM
Thanks guys for the comments, much appreciated.... ��
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Vampothika
Comment #49 Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:12 PM
Comment #49 Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:12 PM
hi butch....this is a nice skin....but i would personally take this skin a step further and skin more things, like the icons, arrows, search and navigation icons ect...(dont take it the wrong way, just some humble suggestions...) it will add to yr skin and make it a rocker....��
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Leo the Lion
Comment #50 Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:21 PM
Comment #50 Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:21 PM
rob, nicely said and I wished I had your skinning insight to rebutt some of needless and unworthy comments made by NT earlier...........NT, that's just not right and I hope you find it in your heart to give both rob and butch an apology.......sooner rather than later ��
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unclerob
Comment #51 Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:51 PM
Comment #51 Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:51 PM
Leo, thanks for the support. Truth be known, I don't need an apology from NT to survive. However, calling Butch a phony download whore was just a bit much for my taste. Seriously when Butch or any other skinner uploads their skins to this site, no one can tell if the skin will be popular or not and receive a ton of downloads until it's publicly available. Butch doesn't control the download #'s, if his stuff is popular with wincustomize/windowblinds users - is that his fault? How does he control that? So why call him a phony download whore? Sorry that's just not right IMHO. NT, I've noticed in other forums and skin comments you've had a bit of bone to pick with me too and maybe for the same reason but I can't say for sure. That's unfortunate. Whenever I've commented on your skin, I called it like I saw it, I like your work alot, you have alot of talent... ALOT! ... but your social skills suck beans. How many users on this site have the "master" title attached to their user accounts? A handful of "masters" exist literally out of the total users on this site. You don't just get to wear that title because of your skinning abilities even though the bulk of that title is granted to you because of that. As a "master" you should be promoting skinning not animosity.
I.R. Brainiac
Comment #52 Friday, July 4, 2008 7:59 AM
...getting undeserved accolades just because most users have no idea what they are seeing.(apologies to Leo,love you man,but dont necessarily agree) You can bet your last dollar that all the Stardock artist created every single image from scratch,no matter how close it looks to Vista. I have nothing against Butch personally,but as a skinner,I find it hard to dig up any respect for his efforts when there isnt much to them...I feel he is in a rut.But thats ok I guess,he admits he likes it there and people like his skins...so cool for him.�� I apologise to Butch for using his comment thread for saopboxing about something that isnt pointed just at him...but we "masters' have noticed some of these issues from several skinners for a good while now...and nobody calls them out on it...or bothers to attempt to push them in the right direction. Criticism IS promoting good skinning...I hate it when a skin only ever gets 'goodjobs'.Something I've seen Butch hand out to some of the worst skins I have ever seen.It does the artist no favor. I've been blasted many times...makes me laugh and smile...but sometimes they have a point.��
Comment #52 Friday, July 4, 2008 7:59 AM
As a "master" you should be promoting skinning not animosity.
NT may have been 'harsh',but he is only saying what many of us are thinking.A skins popularity isnt a good indicator of quality...most downloaders are like sheep when it comes to trends. Proficient skinners get a little tired of seeing 3/4 skinned,suspiciously familiar graphics in skins where the rest of the images are of a lesser quality...(as tho 2 different artist were involved) 
...getting undeserved accolades just because most users have no idea what they are seeing.(apologies to Leo,love you man,but dont necessarily agree) You can bet your last dollar that all the Stardock artist created every single image from scratch,no matter how close it looks to Vista. I have nothing against Butch personally,but as a skinner,I find it hard to dig up any respect for his efforts when there isnt much to them...I feel he is in a rut.But thats ok I guess,he admits he likes it there and people like his skins...so cool for him.�� I apologise to Butch for using his comment thread for saopboxing about something that isnt pointed just at him...but we "masters' have noticed some of these issues from several skinners for a good while now...and nobody calls them out on it...or bothers to attempt to push them in the right direction. Criticism IS promoting good skinning...I hate it when a skin only ever gets 'goodjobs'.Something I've seen Butch hand out to some of the worst skins I have ever seen.It does the artist no favor. I've been blasted many times...makes me laugh and smile...but sometimes they have a point.��
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unclerob
Comment #55 Friday, July 4, 2008 10:07 AM
I'm not into starting any fights now but it sounds like this animosity against "several" skinners has been building up for quite some time. If you have a real beef put it out there, make your intentions known, unload it all, point out all of the errors by the skinners in question and list those specific skinners you have problems with. If you really want this "problem" to get solved or at least receive more attention, take it on as a responsibility and as a rep of the "master" class and say your peace. NT can also list his greivances against Butch and myself since he made it known he has problems with us. For my part, I will read it and respond maturely if necessary - as for myself I won't resort to name calling and cheap comments to get my point across.
Comment #55 Friday, July 4, 2008 10:07 AM
NT may have been 'harsh',but he is only saying what many of us are thinking.A skins popularity isnt a good indicator of quality...most downloaders are like sheep when it comes to trends. Proficient skinners get a little tired of seeing 3/4 skinned,suspiciously familiar graphics in skins where the rest of the images are of a lesser quality...(as tho 2 different artist were involved) ...getting undeserved accolades just because most users have no idea what they are seeing.(apologies to Leo,love you man,but dont necessarily agree) You can bet your last dollar that all the Stardock artist created every single image from scratch,no matter how close it looks to Vista. I have nothing against Butch personally,but as a skinner,I find it hard to dig up any respect for his efforts when there isnt much to them...I feel he is in a rut.But thats ok I guess,he admits he likes it there and people like his skins...so cool for him. I apologise to Butch for using his comment thread for saopboxing about something that isnt pointed just at him...but we "masters' have noticed some of these issues from several skinners for a good while now...and nobody calls them out on it...or bothers to attempt to push them in the right direction. Criticism IS promoting good skinning...I hate it when a skin only ever gets 'goodjobs'.Something I've seen Butch hand out to some of the worst skins I have ever seen.It does the artist no favor. I've been blasted many times...makes me laugh and smile...but sometimes they have a point.
I can respect the fact that you are able to communicate in a respectable manner - I.R. you're an excellent example of what the "master" status is all about: incredible skinner and awesome representative of this site and skinning in general. NT's comments are harsh! I don't agree that most downloaders are sheep but in the end, who cares?! Butch isn't profiting from the download counts and he isn't a skin moderator, if this is such a big issue, tell the moderators to stop approving skins that are questionable. And so what if skins are 3/4 skinned, you can count all of my wb's and they're all 3/4 skinned: no toolbar icons and no animations - I don't currently have the skill set for it and I couldn't come up with anything better than the existing toolbar icons or animations available currently so why should I bother? Just my humble opinion but if I don't include toolbar icons or animations with a wb skin that I upload, that isn't a dealbreaker for me and probably not for most other people either, the skin still looks & operates fine. And this issue of "undeserved accolades", my goodness, we're not handing out oscars or academy awards here, people are just saying that they like a skin - what's wrong with that?! Truth be told most of us won't attain a "master" status on this site with our skinning abilities. And when you comment on a skin submitted by a new skinner that is new to all of this and their skin is not up to experienced skinners standards, should we all just point our barrels in their direction and say "horrible job, not very good, could be much better, very rough & unpolished" and let loose with a fury of negative comments - how can that work to make someone better, I can only see that working to make someone quit. We are using butch's comment section for our soapboxing as you put it and i apologize to butch for that also. Seriously there is a great place for all of this, in the discussion forums. If the "masters" have noticed these issues from several skinners, start a thread and let loose. Make examples of the several skinners in question (myself included probably as per NT's previous comments), list all of our errors & sins, I'd love the details as I'm sure alot of us would. I'm not into starting any fights now but it sounds like this animosity against "several" skinners has been building up for quite some time. If you have a real beef put it out there, make your intentions known, unload it all, point out all of the errors by the skinners in question and list those specific skinners you have problems with. If you really want this "problem" to get solved or at least receive more attention, take it on as a responsibility and as a rep of the "master" class and say your peace. NT can also list his greivances against Butch and myself since he made it known he has problems with us. For my part, I will read it and respond maturely if necessary - as for myself I won't resort to name calling and cheap comments to get my point across.
Wizard1956
Comment #56 Friday, July 4, 2008 4:43 PM
Comment #56 Friday, July 4, 2008 4:43 PM
A good skin but a little more transparency than I need.Your other four are more usable,imo.Put into your work what you want, us sheep can decide for ourselves. Baaa. 
Baaa. 
(definitely not me, but I thought it fit)
butch123
Comment #59 Friday, July 4, 2008 7:36 PM
Comment #59 Friday, July 4, 2008 7:36 PM
Thanks for the comments, much appreciated....(Lady) Bebi Bulma
vStyler
Comment #60 Friday, July 4, 2008 7:55 PM
Comment #60 Friday, July 4, 2008 7:55 PM
My advice would be to stop updating and uploading the same skin over and over and pushing the rest of the gallery down...start a new skin from scratch, using your own graphics and skinning as much as possible in the skin. It.. also .. surprises me that these skins pass moderation. I could go through the skin bit by bit and really make a stink here but I'm not going to, I will say that I agree with NT for the most part, harshness sometimes, ugly tho it may be, is neccesary. Hopefully you will use the feedback in this thread to improve your work...thats up to you tho.. Good luck.
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Comment #41 Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:06 AM