Skins, flames, and 'tude
Criticism or advice?
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 by Jafo | Discussion: Skinning
Something prompted by a recent upload....probably worthy of a general post.....
Just a 'gentle reminder'..skinning started long before XP came along. It has always been a personal process. Someone who 'could do it' 'would do it'. Then, they may, or may not subsequently choose to share it with others and upload it.
Because they were 'personal creations' they may suit the author admirably, with or without 'issues' that others may perceive on their own systems.
[Case in point...my WB skins were all designed for Litestep and, to the XP Explorer shell user they are not just 'buggy', they are very incomplete....yet on an LS system they work just fine.]
When suggesting there are errors, etc...and the author remarks 'I don't use IE so it doesn't affect me'...you are left with 2 options. Either adjust it yourself, or POLITELY suggest it could benefit with/from amendments.
There really are only two rules to remember.
1. The skins are given freely...appreciate that.
and
2. Fellow site members deserve consideration and respect.
Remember...skinning is supposed to be fun. There IS no room for 'attitude'....
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Double Zero
Reply #2 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:12 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:12 PM
I agree 100%...
I know exactly the skin in question and the comment that perhaps sparked this thread..there was absolutely no reason to go to the extreme the individual did..
::sighs:: Ah well
Zero.
I know exactly the skin in question and the comment that perhaps sparked this thread..there was absolutely no reason to go to the extreme the individual did..
::sighs:: Ah well
Zero.
Bichur
Reply #3 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:19 PM
Reply #3 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:19 PM
Hear here.
I agree.
I look at it as a gift.
I had no personal stake in any of the creations uploaded here or anywhere else. I did not commission anything.
I had no say in color scheme, buttons, tool bar, etc, etc, etc.
Unless the creator accidently left something out, it's complete.
Criticisms should be contructive and conducive to helping improvement in skill.
I agree.
I look at it as a gift.
I had no personal stake in any of the creations uploaded here or anywhere else. I did not commission anything.
I had no say in color scheme, buttons, tool bar, etc, etc, etc.
Unless the creator accidently left something out, it's complete.
Criticisms should be contructive and conducive to helping improvement in skill.
Corky_O
Reply #6 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:10 PM
Reply #6 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:10 PM
Nice reminder of what it is all about, Jafo.
Instead of being a critic, one could get the proper skinning software and create one to their liking if the freely offered ones don't suit. It may take some effort, but - hey, a great lesson may result.
Instead of being a critic, one could get the proper skinning software and create one to their liking if the freely offered ones don't suit. It may take some effort, but - hey, a great lesson may result.
Shotgun989
Reply #7 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:43 PM
Reply #7 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:43 PM
*Stand up, applauds, realizes that he is only one standing, sits*
This is kind of like the government...affect change, shut up (respectfully) or get out.
This is kind of like the government...affect change, shut up (respectfully) or get out.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #9 Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:55 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:55 AM
Respect seems to be a forgotten art these days.
The internet has given people the (apparent) freedon to say what they like without fear of consequence. Unfortunately good manners are the first casualty 
craeonics
Reply #10 Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:53 AM
Reply #10 Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:53 AM
Attitude is the author's prerogative, not the user's.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #11 Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:44 AM
Reply #11 Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:44 AM
Nice post Jafo. I apologized for my involvement as best as I could. Some things were said that others did not have a chance to read before they were editied. I honestly felt like I had good restraint. Sometimes I have a little too much pride in WC and don't want the libraries filling with poorly made skins. I never want to hear someone say, pfft all the stuff at WC is garbage.
To each his own, and that's the way it should be. In the real world people that don't come to WC are going to knock it anyways. I won't be doing anymore policing.
Now, It has also come to my attention that I might possibly be trying to chase away new skinners. This really hit me deeply since I have spent countless hours helping people get started, fix bugs, etc. I really hope that I am being oversensitive and this is not the case. If anyone has come to think that I am out to get newbies, I am sorry for anything I did to make that seem so. I would never try to chase away someone new. If the author of the skin in question had asked for help, I would have in a second.
I may tend to be outspoken sometimes and I feel like I am monthly apologizing for something I said. A good dose of lurking might be the right thing for awhile.
Action and reaction.....its the reaction part I often have had trouble restraining. I am working on it.
To each his own, and that's the way it should be. In the real world people that don't come to WC are going to knock it anyways. I won't be doing anymore policing.
Now, It has also come to my attention that I might possibly be trying to chase away new skinners. This really hit me deeply since I have spent countless hours helping people get started, fix bugs, etc. I really hope that I am being oversensitive and this is not the case. If anyone has come to think that I am out to get newbies, I am sorry for anything I did to make that seem so. I would never try to chase away someone new. If the author of the skin in question had asked for help, I would have in a second.
I may tend to be outspoken sometimes and I feel like I am monthly apologizing for something I said. A good dose of lurking might be the right thing for awhile.
Action and reaction.....its the reaction part I often have had trouble restraining. I am working on it.
WOM
Reply #12 Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:03 AM
Reply #12 Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:03 AM
It never suprises me that threads like these have to be posted every few months. Sometimes its the way people say things, not what they are saying that ruffles some feathers. Nice post Jafo.
butch123
Reply #13 Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:26 AM
Reply #13 Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:26 AM
Super Wizop Fuzzy Logic,in agreement with everything you said.. 
DigitalCHET
Reply #14 Thursday, April 14, 2005 3:58 PM
Reply #14 Thursday, April 14, 2005 3:58 PM
Good one Jafo. This did indeed need to be restated for the benefit of everyone. There are always newcomers who don't really know how all this works, and even some of the older (with all due respect 
) Wincustomizers seem to forget these points.
With that said... let's get back to it!
) Wincustomizers seem to forget these points.With that said... let's get back to it!
GhoS
Reply #15 Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:58 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:58 PM
I agree with Jafo on his points although I would add a little. I would suggest that authors in general make it clear if there may be issues with certain apps or if its made with a particular user base in mind. Most do do this I believe, and I am not familiar with the skin in question, but I think some flames or tude could be averted with that kind of information.
artweasloh
Reply #16 Friday, April 15, 2005 2:29 AM
Reply #16 Friday, April 15, 2005 2:29 AM
I second the motion. As a skinner, a derogatory comment lessens the spirit and the desire to create some more. so this thread should lift anybody's spirit whose skin has been trampled down.
snarph
Reply #17 Friday, April 15, 2005 6:40 PM
Reply #17 Friday, April 15, 2005 6:40 PM
Ah heck somebody got flamed and I didn't even get to see the burnt bodys dang.
But realy it just "Human nature" to insert foot in mouth ooh toenails
But realy it just "Human nature" to insert foot in mouth ooh toenails
starkers
Reply #18 Friday, April 15, 2005 10:40 PM
Reply #18 Friday, April 15, 2005 10:40 PM
said it before on another thread: if it's not constructive, keep it to yourself.
you hit the nail on the head, fuzzy logic, manners on the net are a casualty of bravery from the other end of a wire, as is respect. the question is: would these critics be so vocal if they had to deliver the flaming in person?
newbie skinners may lack the skills and experience of the old timers, but they obviously compensate with effort and desire, which is to be commended, not undermined.
without the newbies (old timers going out to pasture), does skinning have any future at all? in that case, then, help them raise the bar if standards are your issue. everyone has to start somewhere, and for those who take it upon themselves to flame others, just take a moment to imagine where you'd be if the rug had been pulled from under your feet.
you hit the nail on the head, fuzzy logic, manners on the net are a casualty of bravery from the other end of a wire, as is respect. the question is: would these critics be so vocal if they had to deliver the flaming in person?
newbie skinners may lack the skills and experience of the old timers, but they obviously compensate with effort and desire, which is to be commended, not undermined.
without the newbies (old timers going out to pasture), does skinning have any future at all? in that case, then, help them raise the bar if standards are your issue. everyone has to start somewhere, and for those who take it upon themselves to flame others, just take a moment to imagine where you'd be if the rug had been pulled from under your feet.
HG_Eliminator
Reply #19 Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:22 AM
Reply #19 Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:22 AM
flames belong charbroiling my burgers ..not on the boards .....
to post an opinion is fine ...*** thanks for the skin but i dont like it**** acceptable opinion......**DUDE THIS SUX** is not acceptable nor is it a critique...
a critique requires an informed factual evaluation of the object at hand,offering relevant information on bugs and or errors of said object..or even sugestions of how to make the object more useable, if needed....
to post an opinion is fine ...*** thanks for the skin but i dont like it**** acceptable opinion......**DUDE THIS SUX** is not acceptable nor is it a critique...
a critique requires an informed factual evaluation of the object at hand,offering relevant information on bugs and or errors of said object..or even sugestions of how to make the object more useable, if needed....
Daiwa
Reply #20 Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:41 AM
"the bravery of being out of range" - Roger Waters (great album, BTW)
It is a problem for the net. Lots of things get written that would never be spoken in the subject's presence - I've been guilty of it, I'm sure. I would not in any way want to stifle constructive critiques, however - as a skinner, I want to hear from users about the things I've missed or implemented poorly in a skin.
Thanks for the netiquette reminder, Jafo.
Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #20 Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:41 AM
| bravery from the other end of a wire |
"the bravery of being out of range" - Roger Waters (great album, BTW)
It is a problem for the net. Lots of things get written that would never be spoken in the subject's presence - I've been guilty of it, I'm sure. I would not in any way want to stifle constructive critiques, however - as a skinner, I want to hear from users about the things I've missed or implemented poorly in a skin.
Thanks for the netiquette reminder, Jafo.
Cheers,
Daiwa
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Reply #1 Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:07 PM