Vista and DRM
Friday, February 24, 2006 by Island Dog | Discussion: Personal Computing
I have been reading some articles on the DRM that Vista will supposedly include. I would like everyones opinoins on these.
"Microsoft is taking some heat over a digital-rights management (DRM) feature it's folding into its upcoming Vista (formerly Longhorn) operating system.
The feature, called Output Content Protection Management, encompasses several DRM-related schemes. The one that's raised hackles in several articles and blogs is a DRM-related check that's performed when playing back video on Vista-equipped PCs. According to Microsoft's description, the feature "makes sure that the PC's video outputs have the required protection or that they are turned off if such protection is not available."
In plain English, this means that Vista machines won't be able to play next-generation, high-definition DVDs in their full, high-resolution glory unless they're equipped with monitors that support a new DRM scheme called High-Bandwidth Digital Copy Protection, or HDCP. "
Techweb article - http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/167101037
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bakerstreet
Reply #22 Friday, March 17, 2006 3:06 AM
You have to understand that many of thes EULAs are legislation by technology then. We have the right under US law to make a backup of our media. These companies agreed to it when they set the DMCA into motion. Now, they want to remove that right through technology.
Worse, they are using their 'strategic partnerships' to make sure all hardware is going to force us to live by these EULAs. In order to use proprietary formats, hardware manufacturers are being forced to carry the DRM technology, essentially making it impossible to create competing products so that the end user can decide whether to support it or not. You claim there is a choice not to enter into these EULA, and yet when they freeze the market to anyone who doesn't adopt the format they offer us no products with which to make that decision.
Forced obsolescence is the extended benefit of all this. We've tolerated it for years as bad as it has been, but now they are contorting the legal system to the point that not playing to their tune criminalizes out behavior. They build "features" into their products that should play on old hardware just fine, and yet forces us to buy new hardware.
It isn't a matter of "want" anymore. Companies that don't "want" to be a content provider based on policies are condemned as criminal. I can't run a debugger on my machine and play certain games. I can't make perfectly legal copies of my media. If all the features of the TPM become standard, I won't have any choice but to ask my operating system permission to act in a legal way with products I have purchased, only to be denied those rights.
You're right for now. I don't have to buy such technology. Eventually, though, if these companies get their way, they'll simply rid the market of any choice I have.
Reply #22 Friday, March 17, 2006 3:06 AM
| "All that TPM is going to do is better "enforce" what you agree to in the EULA anyway. If you buy something and agree not to copy it, and then subsequently copy it - then you have just violated the agreement. TPM benefits anyone who wants to be a content provider based on policies. Anyway don't blame Vista for improving security - just don't support anyone who tries to rip you off." |
You have to understand that many of thes EULAs are legislation by technology then. We have the right under US law to make a backup of our media. These companies agreed to it when they set the DMCA into motion. Now, they want to remove that right through technology.
Worse, they are using their 'strategic partnerships' to make sure all hardware is going to force us to live by these EULAs. In order to use proprietary formats, hardware manufacturers are being forced to carry the DRM technology, essentially making it impossible to create competing products so that the end user can decide whether to support it or not. You claim there is a choice not to enter into these EULA, and yet when they freeze the market to anyone who doesn't adopt the format they offer us no products with which to make that decision.
Forced obsolescence is the extended benefit of all this. We've tolerated it for years as bad as it has been, but now they are contorting the legal system to the point that not playing to their tune criminalizes out behavior. They build "features" into their products that should play on old hardware just fine, and yet forces us to buy new hardware.
It isn't a matter of "want" anymore. Companies that don't "want" to be a content provider based on policies are condemned as criminal. I can't run a debugger on my machine and play certain games. I can't make perfectly legal copies of my media. If all the features of the TPM become standard, I won't have any choice but to ask my operating system permission to act in a legal way with products I have purchased, only to be denied those rights.
You're right for now. I don't have to buy such technology. Eventually, though, if these companies get their way, they'll simply rid the market of any choice I have.
darktritium
Reply #23 Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:03 PM
Reply #23 Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:03 PM
This whole issue really sucks the big one. DRM this DRM that. I'm tired of these people (Microsoft) sticking it to the consumer. The major problem is the usability of other systems. A system based around the DRM mentality might be a pain in the butt, but think of the alternatives. Apple comps may look pretty, but gaming? I don't think so. Linux systems may sometimes seem like they are stable as a rock. The only downside to Linux-based systems is once again the limiting factor. Gaming on a Linux system? Sure, if you want to spend a few weeks trying to get the game working and even then there aren't many that work. "Oh, you want to use your hibernate function for your laptop?" No go. "Oh, you want to use your USB ports at 2.0 speeds?" Nah, can't do that either. Until there is an OS that can really rock my laptop without me spending the next 5 years tweaking it, I'll have to be a hypocrite; complain about Windows, but still use it. (I'm bitter about Linux 
)
)
starkers
Reply #24 Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:05 AM
Reply #24 Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:05 AM
I intend to upgrade to Vista when it becomes available, but I'll continue to use a dual boot system, with XP Pro as my second OS on a separate HD, and wonder how that would work....if it would bypass the DRM in Vista to make backups of music, etc?
I have hundreds of music Cd's and have ripped quite a few to my PC to save having two appliances running at once, so I'm hoping that Vista, being the primary OS, does not take away this option. I don't have too many DVD's (still using VHS alot) and mostly use my player to view them on TV, but yeah, it is a concern that Vista may interfere with duplicating home movies/pics to send to distant friends and relatives. I live a fair distance from my family, and we frequently share DVD's of this nature, so hopefully MS will not throw a spanner in the works there and make Vista 'that' user unfriendly.
I guess we'll find out soon enough, and if so, I've almost enough spare parts to build a second PC and intall my copy of XP Home to view home mades and do backups.
I have hundreds of music Cd's and have ripped quite a few to my PC to save having two appliances running at once, so I'm hoping that Vista, being the primary OS, does not take away this option. I don't have too many DVD's (still using VHS alot) and mostly use my player to view them on TV, but yeah, it is a concern that Vista may interfere with duplicating home movies/pics to send to distant friends and relatives. I live a fair distance from my family, and we frequently share DVD's of this nature, so hopefully MS will not throw a spanner in the works there and make Vista 'that' user unfriendly.
I guess we'll find out soon enough, and if so, I've almost enough spare parts to build a second PC and intall my copy of XP Home to view home mades and do backups.
Adamness
Reply #25 Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:14 AM
Reply #25 Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:14 AM
It kind of stinks that Microsoft trashed WinFS, but added DRM. That being said, I have no idea what WinFS does, but everyone's making a big deal about it, and I was curious to see it in action. 
Adamness
Reply #26 Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:24 AM
Reply #26 Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:24 AM
Found this article on the Vista DRM.
Link
Doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
The rest of the article is worth reading. Vista sure will have some nifty features.
I also found this quote "Microsoft will probably release WinFS in 2007 as an update." Link
So no worries. Except about the DRM. Although it looks like the DRM will only affect HD movies on HD-DVD and Blu Ray format, but not completely sure on that one.
Link
Doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
The rest of the article is worth reading. Vista sure will have some nifty features.
I also found this quote "Microsoft will probably release WinFS in 2007 as an update." Link
So no worries. Except about the DRM. Although it looks like the DRM will only affect HD movies on HD-DVD and Blu Ray format, but not completely sure on that one.
kin242
Reply #27 Saturday, April 1, 2006 3:01 AM
Reply #27 Saturday, April 1, 2006 3:01 AM
This is why I will always have a dual-bootable PC... Linux is getting better all the time- soon we wont need windows.
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Reply #21 Friday, March 17, 2006 12:49 AM
That completely eliminates one's right to make backup copies. I want to be able to make backup copies of my Music CD's, so I can take them in my car and it doesn't matter whether they fry in the clove-box. I want to make backup copies of my niece's PC games, so it doesn't matter if they are used as a saucer while playing "tea-time" as well.
And I also agree with Baker; how does Vista recognise whether the DVD you want to play is a home-made family-movie or a pirated version of a movie? Anyone who has Sony or other brand-name equipment at home already knows the problem that home-movies often don't play.