Does Stardock "need" WinCustomize?
Business vs. Community
Saturday, October 1, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: Community
There are some people who think that the moment someone starts a business that they instantly become greedy, money grubbing corporate robots. But the reality is, most companies are privately held and those companies do things based on what motivated the stockholders. In a private company wealth may only be a secondary motivator.
I can say as the principle shareholder in Stardock that accumulating wealth has never been my motivator. I want to do cool stuff. And I consider it my "talent" to be able to generally take things I enjoy doing and be able to do them as part of my "job". Some things are done strictly because we think they're neat to do even though there's no remote business justification for it (JoeUser.com for instance). We recently started doing PowerUser.tv too. There's no money to be made in podcasting (unless you're a mega player). But it's fun.
WinCustomize falls into a middle category. Stardock makes software such as WindowBlinds, IconPackager, DesktopX, and so forth. People who buy that software or are thinking of buying that software will want to see what can be done with it. So in that sense, having some sort of gallery of content is necessary. Statistically, most people hear about the software somewhere else or see a screenshot, download the trial version, and THEN start downloading skins after they've purchased it. It's not the other way around -- as a percent, few people discover our software through the skins first.
WinCustomize is a lot more than a skin gallery though. It's a whole web community. It's the largest - by far - site dedicated to downloading content to enhance your Windows desktop experience. With over 22 million monthly visitors, it's one of the largest sites on the net period. And it's safe to say that of the 22 million visitors, only a tiny tiny % actually have purchased (or will purchase) a Stardock product.
The growth of WinCustomize has been steady. In December 2004, the site was getting around 14 million visitors per month. In September 2005, it got just about 22 million. That's a very significant increase for such a short period of time. Yet subscriptions to the site have declined. That is, people who pay $20 to support the continued existence of the site and receive a number of (I think) pretty cool services.
Some people have argued that WinCustomize has no business even trying to get people to buy subscriptions. Since Stardock "owns" it then Stardock should pay for everything because it's a "marketing" expense. Running a site that gets 22+ million visitors per month is not like running some home page. It takes rooms of servers and hundreds of megabits PER SECOND. It also requires an IT staff, database developers and web developers. You're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in expenses.
As a marketing expense, WinCustomize's value is pretty limited. After all, DesktopX has been on WinCustomize since its founding and yet the wider world seems completely unaware of its existence. You hear a lot about Konfabulator. But little about DesktopX. Why is that? There's lots of reasons. But one of the root reasons is a lack of marketing. A lack of ability to get the word out on DesktopX to get users and developers to try it out. More developers doing things with it would mean more and better content which in turn would encourage more users to use it. But in the end, Konfabulator ended up as the program people think of for adding mini-applets to their desktop. And those who have heard of DesktopX are often unaware that it does a lot more such as build entire desktops and allow for desktop objects. So how valuable is WC for marketing? Not much. To be generous, I'd say $50k. And that's just one example.
But WinCustomize currently costs over $300k per year to exist. And in a year, it'll likely cost closer to $400k. Advertising and subscriptions bring the cost down by around $100k. That leaves $200k left. It WC worth $200k in marketing? Not on your life. If Stardock had $200k in extra marketing dollars to spend each year, think of all the advertisements, high end PR firms, and community outreach programs it could have invested in?
The point being, while WinCustomize has some value as a marketing resource, its value is pretty limited. The simple fact is that WinCustomize exists because of what I mentioned at the start -- Stardock, as a private company, can do things simply because it thinks it would be cool. It cares about the skinning community and it thinks having a site like this is neat and worthwhile -- to a point. Individuals have hobbies. Private companies have hobbies too (that's a big difference between private companies and publicly held companies). But just as with personal hobbies, at some point they get too expensive to keep going.
To try to change things, Stardock has brought in two new people right away to help create more incentives for people to subscribe to WinCustomize -- more content for subscribers. But odds are, things are going to start getting tighter for those who simply visit the site month after month who haven't contributed anything (on WC, skinners, even if they've not subscribed or bought anything are given access so that they are treated as subscribers).
Some things that come to mind:
- People with no accounts will only be able to download things that have been uploaded in the past 48 hours and only 5 megabytes of content.
- People without account will likely see a lot more ads. See www.gamespot.com for a good model.
- People with accounts will be able to download up to 50 megabytes. After that they must become an SD customer or a subscriber.
- People who have purchased a SD product (Object Desktop, CursorXP, etc.) will have unlimited downloads but there will be some skins that will only be available to subscribers.
- SD customers will see fewer ads but they will see some ads.
These are just a few ideas floating around -- ideas submitted by users incidentally -- that we're seriously considering. Since WC isn't paid for by ads, the # of monthly visitors is not as much of a goal as one might think. If we could cut our traffic in half, we could probably save around $50k per year in expenses. Another $50k would likely result from increase SD product purchases and/or subscriptions. That would be a net difference of $100k.
There are plenty of other good skin sites out there people can visit. Here are a few: http://www.skinbase.org, http://lotsofskins.com, http://skins.deviantart.com/, http://www.skinz.org, http://www.customize.org.
Stardock - the company - needs sites for people to be able to download skins and themes for its software. But it doesn't have to be WinCustomize.com. Ultimately, if the wider userbase doesn't or can't support WinCustomize as it exists today, then WinCustomize will evolve to be a site that caters more to those who can support it. The current model for it is unsustainable.
Reply #102 Thursday, October 6, 2005 6:10 PM
Why upload skins to a skinsite with so much limitations when you can upload it to other very popular skinsites without limits? |
Perhaps the reason those other skin sites are without limits has to do with a much smaller number of users?
Or perhaps (for some) the constant popup-ads that defray costs for the site by annoying users?
And what makes you think that skinners will not want to upload to a site where people are expected to make SOME sort of contribution? I know that I will continue to submit skins here.
As far as I'm concerned, those who have a problem chipping in to pay for the value this site provides are more than welcome to go elsewhere.
Reply #103 Friday, October 7, 2005 2:43 AM
Or perhaps (for some) the constant popup-ads that defray costs for the site by annoying users? |
One of many good reasons to subscribe to WC
And then of course there's the added risk of downloads via executable files which also contain spyware, malware and browser hijackers. Some sites have already resorted to this harmful 'to the user' tactic, purely to increase profits, and more will follow suit as larger concerns with vested interests further spread their wings.
Okay, so you like free stuff, but like MountainDragon suggested, there's plenty of elsewheres to go for all those 'so-called' 'free skins'....plus all that other unwanted, unavoidable and harmful free stuff thats bundled with alot of them. And oh, that "I don't want this crap' button don't guarantee anything. Many of those exe files are designed not to take no for an answer, as vouched for by the brand new registry entries and your browser going places you've never even heard of....that carefully concealed and unsavoury pop-under that later has the authorities knocking on your door. Yep, there sure are alot of internet horror stories out there, and if you play your cards right(wrong), one could be playing on a computer near you.
Given the risks, it sure makes better sense to bite the bullet, dust the cobwebs off the wallet and subscribe to download the free skins from the user friendly, safe environment at Wincustomize
Reply #104 Saturday, October 8, 2005 2:48 PM
Wardell. You forgot something. The main subject of wincustomize are skins and the most people don't earn any money with uploading skins at wincustomize. If you make too much limitations they won't submit skins any more. Why upload skins to a skinsite with so much limitations when you can upload it to other very popular skinsites without limits? You forgot if wincustomize go offline a new site will open. This is the live. |
What limitations are on skinners? Popular skinners get elite access which is the same as a suscription.
What are these other "very popular" skin sites without limits? Can you find a skin site with a sub 10,000 alexa ranking that has no limitations or side-effects?
Besides, from Stardock's point of view, what does it care if you download skins for WindowBlinds at "very popular" skin site? Someone else is picking up the tab and WindowBlinds skins are still distributed.
Reply #105 Thursday, October 13, 2005 2:04 PM
I personally think that WinCustomize should be a subscription site. for those who think that doing so means that they are selling the art wwork of peoples skins doesn't hold water.
This site brings all sorts of eyes to your work on a public scale, hosts your work on its servers, and creates a community around your work (social networking is the new buzz word). If you feel so wronged by this, take your stuff off and host it yourself. If you get millions of people looking at it, thousands of people with the ability to comment on it, and so forth then good luck.
Here, I'll help you out.
Buy a GoDaddy account, install a program like p(L)og or Geeklog (open source apps) or even Joomla (open source content manager) and now you can create your own communtiy.
Good luck to you and send me a link.
For those who want to stay, I say good for you! WinCustomize and your work 'works' together and gain mutual benefit. You get exposure (and rather quickly than going off and doing it yourself) and friends.
I think some who have already made it can use the solution I posted above and not worry about leaving the larger social network behind.
In other ranting news...
Advertising iPod Nano
With Wincustomize gettting around million of visitors a month, it should be redesigned so that the advertising pays more of the cost (keep in mind I did not say all, but more than what it is doing)
Having Total Webpage Advertisng can help promote ads from outside sources as well as Stardocks on products.
This is where you media marketing section of Stardock should sink its teeth into or have a voleenteer on winCustomize handle marketing for winCustomize.
Stardock Advertising Gish
I am writing a full idea on this (on my deals, media and advertising web blog) and have actually taken screenshots of winCusto and how it could look for unsigned in people and for Stardock pople AND for Wincustomize subscribers (3 different levels of involvement... non signed in individuals see the most ads, Stardock and signed in people see TARGETED ADS and Wincustomize subscriber see no ads)
I think the new design for Wincusto, better UI, clear levels of uses and how to get involved, and finally a web advertsing management for wincusto can make it an over all better site.
Reply #106 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:40 PM
I just want to point one thing out to those who talk about $20 PER YEAR being a lot of money for a hobby. |
Frogboy: No matter how much you argue how assinine it is to say, "$20.00 is not expensive", you should know that people treat software as if it really should be free.
You buy the compueter and everything that can be installed should be free. That is true from 3D Studio to Paint Shop Pro.Why would it be any different for WinCustomize subscription?
You know this! LOL
The same people (literally) will spend 20 dollars when they are NOT suppossed to on food, a movie or eve a game, but when you ask for something like this... they look at you like you have man-breasts (really big ones).
Since it looks like the subscription drive isn't going to work, I will be looking forward to the flame wars that follow.
Again, for those who thing that WinCustomize being a subscription site only or something close to it is earning money off of the artists, then by all means should open their own site, host the files, create the database, pay for the bandwidth, install a website content manager like Joomla or Geeklog (both open source solutions) and start their own site.
Because OBVIOUSLY WinCusto isn't really doing ANYTHING for you to host your work on its servers.
This might work well for people like The skins Factory or SkinPlant who are well known, but for those just starting or in the sort of well known skinner stage... peobably not... what even more strange is that all the sites I know that made a business out of skinning and related web development and amrketing started here and gained a fan base that they would not have otherwise had (as well as new members of their business)
Just using The Skins Factory and SkinPlant as an example... not saying that they said anything about taking their stuff and going away.
Reply #107 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:41 AM
Please check out Link to see a seriously posed conceptual thought for drastically reducing bandwidth for WinCustomize. (I gotta cut this short, have work in the morning so I can't read all 106 posts under this article...) It's a drop in the bucket...but a drop that could save, in theory, 50-75% of the bandwidth costs on this site? I believe that's something Brad and crew would support... (but, it's just a thought). Thanks.
Reply #109 Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:46 PM
Reply #110 Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:57 PM
i'll just sit back here and watch how fast this site sinks |
i doubt this site would sink ... if anything .. i think it would flourish..with the reduced bandwith and lower over head WC staff could better attend to the needs/wants of those who actually contribute
most other sites either have mass amount of adds or spyware wrapped around the installers,for those who dont subscribe...I think the WC guys have been more than fair with those who wish to play but not pay ...
Reply #111 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:54 AM
" limit skin access to non subscribers also limit amount of d/loads, to non subscribers, hell limit or stop whatever you feel like to people that wont pay, i'll just sit back here and watch how fast this site sinks " |
Like the average freeloader is keeping the site afloat? There are plenty of sites giving away free skins, and Stardock will always have its own skin library. The question is whether a gesture of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year is really going toward supporting the skinning community, or if it is being leeched to pieces by anonymous folks that wander in and couldn't care less...
Reply #112 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:34 AM
And I love it, and am happy to pay for a WC and SD subscription. That aside,
One problem i have with the stardock Object Desktop universe isnt the price of Object Desktop,
but that most everything costs $20 on top of it.
I think once you paid $50 or whatever for OD, you shouldnt have to pay another $XX just to use the software to the fullest of its capabilities: Cursor XP: another $20
ObjectDock plus: another $20
etc...
This in my thoughts should all be included with the OD price. It's paying large prices for crippled software.
Now you can say well those things aren't really a part of Object Desktop, but perhaps a solution would be
to give Object Desktop subscribers a bit of a better discount on secondary applications.
Sorry but a $5 discount on Object Dock which IMHO isn't worth $20 asking price
anyways isn't really conforting.
Then add on top of that Cursor XP and all these things that even make a Suite...
a theme, which is what OD is all about,
it's like you're only getting part of the pizza for all the cost.
Just my thoughts.
Reply #113 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:25 AM
Reply #114 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:00 PM
Reply #115 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:49 PM
"...but what they all have in common is that once you have obtained the program you DONT have to pay again in order to download skins and change the look of the program, a lot of people pay for desktop x, windowblinds etc because theres a large FREE skinbase... " |
The comparison to apps like Talisman is apt, since they don't pay to host skins for their apps at all, and yet they still stay in business. If you click the links to skins at Lighttek, you go to one of the many free skin sites in the community. If Talisman is making it without spending hudreds of thousands of dollars hosting skins, why would Stardock shrivel and die? They wouldn't.
It's a flawed point anyway because wincusto isn't the only place to download skins for Stardock products. If wincustomize decided to be more stern about subscriptions people could still go to deviantart or any other the many other skin sites if they were too destitute to support the sites they use. I'd add that even sites like Deviantart stay afloat only because of subscriptions.
Reply #116 Monday, June 12, 2006 11:06 PM
'Tis only 8 months later....
Reply #118 Monday, September 4, 2006 11:51 PM
Reply #119 Tuesday, September 5, 2006 12:01 AM
Yahoo widgets is Stardock behind that? |
Not Stardock.
Yahoo bought Konfabulator
Reply #120 Tuesday, September 5, 2006 5:59 AM
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Reply #101 Thursday, October 6, 2005 5:23 PM
Nothing would be better than to have a new 'big' site open. If it shares/reduces the current load on Wincustomize.com we'd all be grateful....for the speedier access here and the diversity...the more the merrier.
If anyone really has a spare, lazy few millions...go for it...