Does Stardock "need" WinCustomize?

Business vs. Community

Saturday, October 1, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: Community

There are some people who think that the moment someone starts a business that they instantly become greedy, money grubbing corporate robots.  But the reality is, most companies are privately held and those companies do things based on what motivated the stockholders.  In a private company wealth may only be a secondary motivator.

I can say as the principle shareholder in Stardock that accumulating wealth has never been my motivator. I want to do cool stuff. And I consider it my "talent" to be able to generally take things I enjoy doing and be able to do them as part of my "job".  Some things are done strictly because we think they're neat to do even though there's no remote business justification for it (JoeUser.com for instance).  We recently started doing PowerUser.tv too. There's no money to be made in podcasting (unless you're a mega player). But it's fun.

WinCustomize falls into a middle category.  Stardock makes software such as WindowBlinds, IconPackager, DesktopX, and so forth.  People who buy that software or are thinking of buying that software will want to see what can be done with it.  So in that sense, having some sort of gallery of content is necessary.  Statistically, most people hear about the software somewhere else or see a screenshot, download the trial version, and THEN start downloading skins after they've purchased it. It's not the other way around -- as a percent, few people discover our software through the skins first.

WinCustomize is a lot more than a skin gallery though.  It's a whole web community.  It's the largest - by far - site dedicated to downloading content to enhance your Windows desktop experience.  With over 22 million monthly visitors, it's one of the largest sites on the net period.  And it's safe to say that of the 22 million visitors, only a tiny tiny % actually have purchased (or will purchase) a Stardock product.

The growth of WinCustomize has been steady.  In December 2004, the site was getting around 14 million visitors per month. In September 2005, it got just about 22 million.  That's a very significant increase for such a short period of time.  Yet subscriptions to the site have declined.  That is, people who pay $20 to support the continued existence of the site and receive a number of (I think) pretty cool services. 

Some people have argued that WinCustomize has no business even trying to get people to buy subscriptions. Since Stardock "owns" it then Stardock should pay for everything because it's a "marketing" expense.  Running a site that gets 22+ million visitors per month is not like running some home page.  It takes rooms of servers and hundreds of megabits PER SECOND.  It also requires an IT staff, database developers and web developers.  You're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in expenses.

As a marketing expense, WinCustomize's value is pretty limited.  After all, DesktopX has been on WinCustomize since its founding and yet the wider world seems completely unaware of its existence.  You hear a lot about Konfabulator.  But little about DesktopX.  Why is that?  There's lots of reasons. But one of the root reasons is a lack of marketing.  A lack of ability to get the word out on DesktopX to get users and developers to try it out.  More developers doing things with it would mean more and better content which in turn would encourage more users to use it.  But in the end, Konfabulator ended up as the program people think of for adding mini-applets to their desktop.  And those who have heard of DesktopX are often unaware that it does a lot more such as build entire desktops and allow for desktop objects.  So how valuable is WC for marketing? Not much.  To be generous, I'd say $50k.  And that's just one example.

But WinCustomize currently costs over $300k per year to exist.  And in a year, it'll likely cost closer to $400k.  Advertising and subscriptions bring the cost down by around $100k. That leaves $200k left.  It WC worth $200k in marketing? Not on your life.  If Stardock had $200k in extra marketing dollars to spend each year, think of all the advertisements, high end PR firms, and community outreach programs it could have invested in?  

The point being, while WinCustomize has some value as a marketing resource, its value is pretty limited. The simple fact is that WinCustomize exists because of what I mentioned at the start -- Stardock, as a private company, can do things simply because it thinks it would be cool.  It cares about the skinning community and it thinks having a site like this is neat and worthwhile -- to a point.  Individuals have hobbies. Private companies have hobbies too (that's a big difference between private companies and publicly held companies).  But just as with personal hobbies, at some point they get too expensive to keep going.

To try to change things, Stardock has brought in two new people right away to help create more incentives for people to subscribe to WinCustomize -- more content for subscribers.  But odds are, things are going to start getting tighter for those who simply visit the site month after month who haven't contributed anything (on WC, skinners, even if they've not subscribed or bought anything are given access so that they are treated as subscribers).

Some things that come to mind:

  • People with no accounts will only be able to download things that have been uploaded in the past 48 hours and only 5 megabytes of content.
  • People without account will likely see a lot more ads. See www.gamespot.com for a good model.
  • People with accounts will be able to download up to 50 megabytes. After that they must become an SD customer or a subscriber.
  • People who have purchased a SD product (Object Desktop, CursorXP, etc.) will have unlimited downloads but there will be some skins that will only be available to subscribers.
  • SD customers will see fewer ads but they will see some ads.

These are just a few ideas floating around -- ideas submitted by users incidentally -- that we're seriously considering.  Since WC isn't paid for by ads, the # of monthly visitors is not as much of a goal as one might think.  If we could cut our traffic in half, we could probably save around $50k per year in expenses.  Another $50k would likely result from increase SD product purchases and/or subscriptions.  That would be a net difference of $100k.

There are plenty of other good skin sites out there people can visit. Here are a few: http://www.skinbase.org, http://lotsofskins.com, http://skins.deviantart.com/, http://www.skinz.org, http://www.customize.org.

Stardock - the company - needs sites for people to be able to download skins and themes for its software.  But it doesn't have to be WinCustomize.com. Ultimately, if the wider userbase doesn't or can't support WinCustomize as it exists today, then WinCustomize will evolve to be a site that caters more to those who can support it.  The current model for it is unsustainable.

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seldomseen
Reply #121 Tuesday, September 5, 2006 11:38 AM
Good bump on this thread. WC is important to me as a subscriber and user of Stardock products. Although I don't contribute skins, I try to put what I can into the system by purchasing all the programs and premium works that I can. For me, WC is the "showroom" for Stardock products, providing an interface for me, the consumer, to obtain "product" to use. It's hard for me to compare WC to any local marketplace, as this is a unique concept, depending upon, and sustaining, Stardock's products. I pay for items/art/programs that I want and can afford at the time. I'll continue to do so, as I'm able to.
OxygenHazard
Reply #122 Saturday, October 14, 2006 6:24 AM

WinCustomize could lower their subscription price to (ONE) $1.00 for a year subscription... You have to have a subscription to download skins or you can only download 2 (two) per month... (Except for the Skinners they get it for free)
Now for the premium Skins any 4 for $10.00. 2 for $8.00

Why you say so cheap??
Well here is why you will make MORE money.
Even if you put a bigger download limit more people will take the subscription...

With over 22 million monthly visitors, let’s say half of this is repeat so now we’re at 11M even if you only get 5% of this you will make LOTS of MONEY this is something like $550,000.00

To me this $ would be much higher something like 25% to 35%
Even 10% is good that is 1,100,000.00
20% = $2,200,000.00...


But you all are charging $20.00 for a year subscription at which your making a lot of $$$
Lets (brake) it down. What is the % of the 22M? That has a subscription is it 1%?
Even @ 1% this is 220,000 subscribers @ $20.00 = $4,400,000.00
Even @ 0.5% this is 110,000 subscribers @ $20.00 = $2,200,000.00
@ 0.025% this is 55,000 subscribers @ $20.00 = $1,100,000.00

So now looking at all this WinCustomize is not hurting!!!!!!!

.0125% = 27,500 subscribers @ $20.00 = $550,000.00
.00625 = 13,750 subscribers @ $20.00 = $275,000.00
Note Subscribers and subscriptions is referring to paid persons

So I will have to say that this comment is just a scare tactic to try to get more people to be a paid subscriber.


So the question we all need to look at is WC greedy? $20.00 per year to me is why too high when we all have other bills to pay... I don’t know how many paid members WC has
If it is in the 3,000 to 20,000 range then lower it to $1.00 and you will be amazed at the number of new PAID subscribers... and then give people the option to pay by check yes I said check and not all people have credit cards or even want them.


Now for if WC is @ the 0.1% or higher and not giving any money to the skinners
Then yes WC is just being greedy..
Neil Banfield
Reply #123 Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:41 PM

I am not personally aware of the WC Subscriber numbers, and what follows are my own personal views and not the views of anyone else.

Until micropayments become an option, charging $1 for anything is not viable.

As for allowing cheque payment of $1, this is never going to be profitable as someone has to open the post and take the cheques to the bank.

Stardock do accept cheques for purchasing the software I believe (and I suspect WC subscriptions too)

Reducing prices for some things can work, but reducing prices can also increase the number of people who think it is so cheap it is not worth purchasing.  Picking a price is a very complicated thing.  Price it too high and few people buy, price it too low and you end up making a loss as the number of people willing to purchase may not increase in the way you expect.

Take WindowBlinds as an example.  If we halved the cost, would we get twice the number of purchasers.  The answer I suspect is no.  If we dropped it to $1, do you honestly think we would sell 20 as many copies?  If we somehow did then would we not also be having to deal with 20x the charge backs, messed up orders etc?

This works the other way too.  Putting WB up to say $30 would probably halve sales.

You also need to take into fixed costs per sale like store costs and other costs like account support costs and misc IT related costs from having more subscribers.  If each subscriber is paying only $1 then who is paying for the support when a user forgets their password and needs it reset?

You also overestimate the number of people who purchase software/services by a very large amount.

BigDogBigFeet
Reply #124 Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:21 PM
Hi Neil! I'm with you Business 101. That's why when I purchase something like a premium skin, I also try to time it with some other purchase I've had in mind. This way Stardock and WinCustomize aren't having to process an $8 order for me.

So, the original question, does Stardock need WinCustomize? I think the answer is absolutely. I know from my own experience that: I have learned more in how to make use of the Stardock products, I have the opportunity to download from the large libraries and enjoy other peoples work, and I have the opportunity to participate in the forums. So clearly as a Stardock customer I see WinCustomize as a needed value added benefit to me.

So, does Stardock gain from WinCustomize? Again, I think the answer is absolutely. First, from what I mentioned is the important intangible called customer goodwill. How about economically? I think Stardock is working on that. I know I've happily made additional purchases. WinCustomize isn't yet an economic profit center as they say for Stardock but, can it do more to stand on its own 2 feet? It probably will. The answer to that will depend on how people respond to the marketing efforts.

What's the hesitation to a WinCustomize subscription? Its only $20 for a year. With that subscription I have downloaded about 850MB of great stuff. And, as I have said, I'm a happy customer. I'm sure there are many other happy customers here as well. So thanks Stardock, I appreciate WinCustomize!
Mistacuts
Reply #125 Monday, October 16, 2006 8:23 AM
I just started being a subscribed and paid the $50 and got my friends into it so that makes 7 of us total or $350 in your pocket. I gotta tell ya we all think it was money well spent. Why cant you get a contract with Microsoft to skin Vista or some of there upcoming products that are coming out? Since there skins that come with the stock version of Windows is so bland. Have u approached them with the possibility? I think it would be worth a shot since u have such a vast database of skins already.

Jafo
Reply #126 Monday, October 16, 2006 9:03 AM

Why cant you get a contract with Microsoft to skin Vista or some of there upcoming products that are coming out? Since there skins that come with the stock version of Windows is so bland. Have u approached them with the possibility? I think it would be worth a shot since u have such a vast database of skins already

Stardock is a Microsoft Gold Partner [not just because they are nice guys] due to their efforts with Windows GUI customizing Software.

It's fairly safe to claim that MS simply leaves the sexification [new word] of the GUI in SD's capable hands....

seldomseen
Reply #127 Monday, October 16, 2006 9:23 AM
sexification


robust emergent lexicography ?
Phoon
Reply #128 Monday, October 16, 2006 10:41 AM
MS simply leaves the sexification [


Does anyone else feel... "dirty" after reading that?
Sosiosh
Reply #129 Monday, October 16, 2006 12:54 PM
Back to the subject   

I have been a subscriber to Stardock for a several years. When the WinCustomize browser came out (or I finally discovered it) I have never turned back. I pay my yearly subscription because I am getting the finest quality skinning available. I am not an artist and I have no hope of being one... so I depend on the talented skinners here to unleash my boring desktop at home and at work. I have looked at other sites but I am creature of habit and will not subscribe to a site that has limited, ugly skins and difficult to use widgets.

I have found many folks I introduce to WinCustomize are very excited to discover they can skin the entire desktop, but the cost does get in the way. I wish MS would put out a barebones OS, fully customizable and truly partner with sites like Stardock to encourage the arts since our PC is now the canvas and the muse.

The lower cost of an OEM barebones OS would allow the user to fork out the money to Stardock for the sole purpose of customizing at will. I realize this is an extreme answer to the capital question but I believe the youth of today with no money and the baby boomers with all the money (and time on their hands as they retire) will find the ability to express themselves severely limited if sites like Stardock cannot sustain easy to use interfaces like WinCustomize.

PS- BootSkin and LogonStudio ought to be purchased, too. Maybe then I can get them to work on my Windows XP 64-bit!
Phoon
Reply #130 Monday, October 16, 2006 2:06 PM
believe the youth of today with no money


That is not a new concept. Generally, youth of any day has no money.
I'm not buying that excuse at all though as I was a "youth" once and I had no problem at all scraping together 40-50 for a good party night. It's just a matter of priorities.
Sosiosh
Reply #131 Monday, October 16, 2006 2:45 PM
Sorry, I should have elaborated, I work mostly with foster children... They are creative and would like to afford the 'vistas' of the world but typically they are limited to the freebees and My Space which is like a Christmaa present at first. Then it wears out. The kids I work with love going to Stardock to see what is new and the artwork certainly appeals to them.

Maybe MS could offer a barebones OS to those of limited resources at an even further discount otherwise these kids would get behind real fast so the 40-50 and a subscription to Stardock could come as and add on on the OS disk along with the essential office tools.

Once they leave the foster care program the opportunities for public support really dry up. It would be nice to see MS really step up to the plate for anyone of limited means! But this is not the place for such a political discussion.

How about it Stardock? Include WinCustomize tryouts on the startup disks? I know there is a lot of junk already there, but, you are not junk! Thanks Phoon you got the creative flow moving!!!
Sosiosh
Reply #132 Monday, October 16, 2006 3:37 PM
Phoon! Congrats on the GUI award... interstingly enough, a lot of my kids picked yours for their desktops just last week, including me!!

Giving some away isn't so bad!
Phoon
Reply #133 Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:41 PM
Thanks QuietSun, and I really hope the foster kids can find the solution to the problem. Do any of them have part time jobs, or are they not old enough to do that yet?
Perhaps, an answer is just around the corner.
Phoon
Reply #134 Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:05 PM
QuietSun,
I need your email address...

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