Does Stardock "need" WinCustomize?
Business vs. Community
Saturday, October 1, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: Community
There are some people who think that the moment someone starts a business that they instantly become greedy, money grubbing corporate robots. But the reality is, most companies are privately held and those companies do things based on what motivated the stockholders. In a private company wealth may only be a secondary motivator.
I can say as the principle shareholder in Stardock that accumulating wealth has never been my motivator. I want to do cool stuff. And I consider it my "talent" to be able to generally take things I enjoy doing and be able to do them as part of my "job". Some things are done strictly because we think they're neat to do even though there's no remote business justification for it (JoeUser.com for instance). We recently started doing PowerUser.tv too. There's no money to be made in podcasting (unless you're a mega player). But it's fun.
WinCustomize falls into a middle category. Stardock makes software such as WindowBlinds, IconPackager, DesktopX, and so forth. People who buy that software or are thinking of buying that software will want to see what can be done with it. So in that sense, having some sort of gallery of content is necessary. Statistically, most people hear about the software somewhere else or see a screenshot, download the trial version, and THEN start downloading skins after they've purchased it. It's not the other way around -- as a percent, few people discover our software through the skins first.
WinCustomize is a lot more than a skin gallery though. It's a whole web community. It's the largest - by far - site dedicated to downloading content to enhance your Windows desktop experience. With over 22 million monthly visitors, it's one of the largest sites on the net period. And it's safe to say that of the 22 million visitors, only a tiny tiny % actually have purchased (or will purchase) a Stardock product.
The growth of WinCustomize has been steady. In December 2004, the site was getting around 14 million visitors per month. In September 2005, it got just about 22 million. That's a very significant increase for such a short period of time. Yet subscriptions to the site have declined. That is, people who pay $20 to support the continued existence of the site and receive a number of (I think) pretty cool services.
Some people have argued that WinCustomize has no business even trying to get people to buy subscriptions. Since Stardock "owns" it then Stardock should pay for everything because it's a "marketing" expense. Running a site that gets 22+ million visitors per month is not like running some home page. It takes rooms of servers and hundreds of megabits PER SECOND. It also requires an IT staff, database developers and web developers. You're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in expenses.
As a marketing expense, WinCustomize's value is pretty limited. After all, DesktopX has been on WinCustomize since its founding and yet the wider world seems completely unaware of its existence. You hear a lot about Konfabulator. But little about DesktopX. Why is that? There's lots of reasons. But one of the root reasons is a lack of marketing. A lack of ability to get the word out on DesktopX to get users and developers to try it out. More developers doing things with it would mean more and better content which in turn would encourage more users to use it. But in the end, Konfabulator ended up as the program people think of for adding mini-applets to their desktop. And those who have heard of DesktopX are often unaware that it does a lot more such as build entire desktops and allow for desktop objects. So how valuable is WC for marketing? Not much. To be generous, I'd say $50k. And that's just one example.
But WinCustomize currently costs over $300k per year to exist. And in a year, it'll likely cost closer to $400k. Advertising and subscriptions bring the cost down by around $100k. That leaves $200k left. It WC worth $200k in marketing? Not on your life. If Stardock had $200k in extra marketing dollars to spend each year, think of all the advertisements, high end PR firms, and community outreach programs it could have invested in?
The point being, while WinCustomize has some value as a marketing resource, its value is pretty limited. The simple fact is that WinCustomize exists because of what I mentioned at the start -- Stardock, as a private company, can do things simply because it thinks it would be cool. It cares about the skinning community and it thinks having a site like this is neat and worthwhile -- to a point. Individuals have hobbies. Private companies have hobbies too (that's a big difference between private companies and publicly held companies). But just as with personal hobbies, at some point they get too expensive to keep going.
To try to change things, Stardock has brought in two new people right away to help create more incentives for people to subscribe to WinCustomize -- more content for subscribers. But odds are, things are going to start getting tighter for those who simply visit the site month after month who haven't contributed anything (on WC, skinners, even if they've not subscribed or bought anything are given access so that they are treated as subscribers).
Some things that come to mind:
- People with no accounts will only be able to download things that have been uploaded in the past 48 hours and only 5 megabytes of content.
- People without account will likely see a lot more ads. See www.gamespot.com for a good model.
- People with accounts will be able to download up to 50 megabytes. After that they must become an SD customer or a subscriber.
- People who have purchased a SD product (Object Desktop, CursorXP, etc.) will have unlimited downloads but there will be some skins that will only be available to subscribers.
- SD customers will see fewer ads but they will see some ads.
These are just a few ideas floating around -- ideas submitted by users incidentally -- that we're seriously considering. Since WC isn't paid for by ads, the # of monthly visitors is not as much of a goal as one might think. If we could cut our traffic in half, we could probably save around $50k per year in expenses. Another $50k would likely result from increase SD product purchases and/or subscriptions. That would be a net difference of $100k.
There are plenty of other good skin sites out there people can visit. Here are a few: http://www.skinbase.org, http://lotsofskins.com, http://skins.deviantart.com/, http://www.skinz.org, http://www.customize.org.
Stardock - the company - needs sites for people to be able to download skins and themes for its software. But it doesn't have to be WinCustomize.com. Ultimately, if the wider userbase doesn't or can't support WinCustomize as it exists today, then WinCustomize will evolve to be a site that caters more to those who can support it. The current model for it is unsustainable.
Reply #42 Sunday, October 2, 2005 4:04 AM
* People without account will likely see a lot more ads. See www.gamespot.com for a good model.
* People with accounts will be able to download up to 50 megabytes. After that they must become an SD customer or a subscriber.
* People who have purchased a SD product (Object Desktop, CursorXP, etc.) will have unlimited downloads but there will be some skins that will only be available to subscribers.
* SD customers will see fewer ads but they will see some ads.
I think it should be more strict than that mostly because you proved you point about WinCustomize being more of a cost than a benifit.
By the way, I am glad you mentioned Gamespot, becuase much like Gamespot, Yahoo Music, and other popular sites on the web they have what I call (I don't know their actual name) Total Webpage Adverising or Background Advertising with Site Content (not to be confused with pop-unders).
I talk about marketing, why it works, how it can work better, and how interesting the business of marketing is on my Modblog journal. Its simular to Adbusters, Ad Jab and BusinessWeek's Brand New Day
You can even go to Yahoo Music's main page and see how the theme colors of the site changed to match the ad placed on the site. On Gamespot, you can go to some pages and the backgoung has the image of... say X-Men Legends (Gamespot usually has a black background)
In order to implement this, you would have to design how the ads will appear on WinCustomize. Currently your advertising layout is fine, but they at least should have
This way you can earn more money from advertising and advertise stuff like DesktopX (umm this might be a bad time to mention this but the DX site Desktop Gadgets coul look a littl slicker than it currently looks if it going to be a true rival to Konfabulator widget site)
Anyway, here is my list of changes against what you said:
* People with no accounts will only be able to download things that have been uploaded in the past 48 hours and only 5 megabytes of content.
- Right on point!!!
* People without account will likely see a lot more ads. See www.gamespot.com for a good model.
- If your going to do the 'see the ad before you go to the site' type ads I don't think that is a good idea (for wincustomize). If your going to do it, make it a cool looking entry page that shows the lastest uploads along side advertising for Stardock products (or other tech gadgets or computers... why I don't see alienware advertising here? lol). It stays up for 30 seconds and goes away. (screenshot posted shortly of this)
* People with accounts will be able to download up to 50 megabytes. After that they must become an SD customer or a subscriber.
- I disagree with 50. Before I would have said it should be higher like 100, but now I think it should be lower, say 35mb. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF CHEESE don't have them go to a page that insults them. In the past I saw what many were complaining about and it did kinda suck. If they reach their limit, the page should show them what they are missing by not subscribing (and this page should be designed please) and give them links to other sites they can go to if they want to compare. Also let them know that if they help out on the message boards and do other community stuff like upload skins then at a moderaters discretion they can be allowed to download more stuff.
Also they should be warned about their limit and maybe see a graph when they click the download button.
* People who have purchased a SD product (Object Desktop, CursorXP, etc.) will have unlimited downloads but there will be some skins that will only be available to subscribers.
- Good.
* SD customers will see fewer ads but they will see some ads.
- Ummmm... I hope that by 'some' you mean carefully selected advertising. I don't want to see that Smilies spyware site advertisment. LOL SD customers should, in my view, ONLY see direct sponcer advertising. Say, for example, Dell wanted to advertise to your customers from SD because obviously they like computers, so now they see, on the front page only (maybe gallery pages too), a ad for Dell computers. Now you make more money from Dell because of specific targeting. If you can implement the ad background with Wincustomize content on top, that would be even better.
yes I gave allot of thought to this... I have lots of ideas!!! They might not work considering its coming from a guy who unloads boxes out of a truck for a living even though he has a degree, but its work a discussion maybe
LOL
Reply #43 Sunday, October 2, 2005 4:36 AM
If you are going to download music illegally, why pay the pirates? I doubt you're paying ten cents a song or less to record companies or middlemen. |
Good question. Answer is, because they aren't pirates and they do pay their royalties. Granite they are a russian site, but they are within regulations.
Reply #44 Sunday, October 2, 2005 5:07 AM
Yes, of course they do. A dime or less per song when the music industry is angry about 99 cents each on ITunes. I'm thinking you are being fed a line just to download music other leeches get for free.
Reply #45 Sunday, October 2, 2005 5:16 AM
*chuckle* Yes, of course they do. A dime or less per song when the music industry is angry about 99 cents each on ITunes. I'm thinking you are being fed a line just to download music other leeches get for free. |
Lol.. since when did my music purchases become topic of discussion anyways. Just for the fun of it, I'll still comment.
I use www.mp3search.ru (It IS Legal) I've researched into this via a few different reliable forums. Now whether it stays that way for long, I don't know. Lol. I use them because of the high bandwidth download speeds their site offers. In addition, I get at least 192 bitrate quality MP3s along with coverart. For older metal albums I search for and can't find anywhere and other misc. music, this site (for me anyways) is a Godsend. If you wanted the link, why not just ask?
I figure the pirates can keep their crappy 96 bitrate or lower tracks, with no coverart and *majority of the time* unbareable slow download speeds.
I'm the basic consumer. I want to pay as little as possible (within reason) and have as much as possible.
Hence, filtering into topic... I don't see why I spent $49.95 for ObjectDesktop and need to pay for less than nominal mini suites from them, per suite. Or rather, a subsidary if you want to argue it's seperate.
I could however justify paying an additional $39.95 yearly subscription (in addition to the $49.95 ObjectDesktop one) and that's ALL I pay and have unlimited access to whatever I wish.
This is a way to pay respects to the artists, and also keep everyone happy.
Reply #46 Sunday, October 2, 2005 7:27 AM
yes I gave allot of thought to this... I have lots of ideas!!! They might not work considering its coming from a guy who unloads boxes out of a truck for a living even though he has a degree, but its work a discussion maybe |
Geez...you need a degree to unload boxes?
Cardboard Couriership 101, majoring in Cubist Elevatory Conceptuals.....?....
Reply #47 Sunday, October 2, 2005 8:34 AM
Reply #48 Sunday, October 2, 2005 8:47 AM
This SD does. Where can we just make straight out contributions? It's about $9 to see a movie in the U.S.
Education is extremely expensive anywhere.
I have been both entertained and educated here at WC. I owe more than money, but would love to know where the avenue for straight up contributions is found.
Reply #49 Sunday, October 2, 2005 8:51 AM
Half of the freeloaders will smoke or drink more than $ 30.00 today alone.
Reply #50 Sunday, October 2, 2005 9:47 AM
Best idea I've heard yet.
FWIW - I don't think the 48 hrs solution really solves the problem of high bandwidth usage by the non supporter. You still have the cream of the crop available to the freeloader with no obligation and no incentive to join. The only incentive created with that parameter is for the freeloader to wait until the next day to see what new 4 or 5 star skin is out.
Reply #51 Sunday, October 2, 2005 9:57 AM
Now, if it ends up that the non-payer can SEE this content, even admire the previews, etc, but cannot access it, being limited to what a skinner has deemed 'inferior', there's a fair to middling chance he will subscribe to unlock 'pandora's box'. |
If that was the case then Stardock would be making money off artist's work, in our case off our client's intellectual property which i do not think would be acceptable.
Reply #52 Sunday, October 2, 2005 10:06 AM
Jeff....read further...it'd be up to each skinner whether his works were 'restricted' to subscribed access...so in your case...or that of hosted commissioned works...you'd simply choose not to have them restricted that way.
It is NOT profiting off skinners' works...it is skinners' works downloads being paid for by those who do the downloading....and NOT by those who provide the facility FOR that downloading.
There's a significant difference/distinction....
Reply #53 Sunday, October 2, 2005 10:08 AM
Reply #54 Sunday, October 2, 2005 10:27 AM
After all of the suggestions (most being easily implemented) I'm sure a happy medium could be reached.
Enforce the Unlimited account I suggested, or offer let's say 2 premium skins each month to the current subscription and I'd gladly pay the fees for subscription. But not at it's currently layout. (And I will hold true to this)
As an ObjectDesktop purchaser, I want to see this site successful as well and stick around, so for my contribution after alreadying sheeling out my $50.. I need more incentive as suggested above.
If some of these changes are implemented and the basic non-WC, non-Stardock person is still upset... Make the site exclusive to only registered SD software purchasers (For the area of software they purchaser ONLY, if OD then All) and of course current paying WC users and cut out the rest. Simple.
One things for sure, again, if it's that much of a burden.. I would expect to see some changes within 24 hours time to "get back on track" if you will...
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I need more incentive and access in a WC Subscription. Maybe seperate, but I've already paid enough into SD..
Reply #55 Sunday, October 2, 2005 10:41 AM
Reply #56 Sunday, October 2, 2005 10:49 AM
Of course most of the ideas presented hinge on Skinner's posting their work exclusively on Wincustomize. Many people are ego or career driven and isolating themselves to WC will have big impact on that. Too many Skinners have sites of their own to distribute their work. That is where most scenarios fail. |
With skinners like yourself, mike bryant and JJ Ying to name a few which are probably 100% loyal.. Who cares about the rest? Without sounding like a jerk. I'd rather have what I'd consider "complete" skins from artists that make such than have lower grade ones anyways. I don't skin mainly because of time constraints and lack of personal creative ideas.. If I made a skin, would you care? Lol..
Reply #57 Sunday, October 2, 2005 10:54 AM
Reply #58 Sunday, October 2, 2005 11:06 AM
Brad's points about the cost of running the site are not invalid, but I think he is understimating the value of this resource to the company's other products. I doubt very seriously if there are very many people who purchase an Object Desktop subscription, and then never download skins. |
Even without a WinCustomize, there'd be places to download skins. Either other sites or Stardock would create specific, heavily moderated, libraries for its stuff. But there's a lot more to WC than just libraries for its stuff.
WinAmp, for instance, doesn't host Media Player skins on its site for instance.
I think the community is likely to evolve to being a bit smaller but closer. Regardless of what people think is fair or whatever, the current model is not sustainable.
Reply #59 Sunday, October 2, 2005 11:11 AM
I think the community is likely to evolve to being a bit smaller but closer. Regardless of what people think is fair or whatever, the current model is not sustainable. |
Then read through the suggestions and choose what is plausable for the site.. And change it. All talk, no action on some sites (not saying this one). Better yet, just change to what is to be the new way and ride with it.. No point to stir up attention.
Reply #60 Sunday, October 2, 2005 12:27 PM
For someone like me, that wasn't born with the creative gene, WinCustomize is a neccesary daily fix. The subscription rate is very reasonable when you compare it to going to the movies, and/or, buying music or a DVD.
I for one am "VERY GREATFUL" that Stardock is supporting WinCustomize. I've seen many customization web sites close over the years. WinCustomize has hung in there and gotten better and better. I SHOW my gratitude by PURCHASING a subsription. I HOPE OTHERS WHO FEEL AS I DO WILL HELP SUPPORT WINCUSTOMIZE TOO.
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Reply #41 Sunday, October 2, 2005 3:57 AM
If you are going to download music illegally, why pay the pirates? I doubt you're paying ten cents a song or less to record companies or middlemen.